ID Conclave warrior exclusion

[Bluelightt]

Passive aoe is really special and something to be desired when composing a raid. Once outside of GSB and ROS, HK and especially ID have many boss encounters where aoe dps is absolutely required. It is really valuable not to require anyone to change specs or switch targets if you have warriors who can just do champion.

Warrior and rogue dps balance goes deeper than just numbers. There are support / tanking concerns as well as the fact that most bosses prohibit the use of the spec that can compete with warriors.

I wouldn't call 1 fight in all of ID where they shine as "many boss encounters". Kind of nice is not the same as required, there are very few fights where really heavy AoE is required. A few of them on your passive aoe lol list in ID are just silly. I mean really Conclave you list as a fight that benefits from passive aoe? Um no. Maklamos? Possibly if doing hard mode and you need to cleave the adds and the boss to reach enrage (don't know never attempted hard mode on Maklamos).

[scourger]

what is this wall strat people use for ituziel, always done kite around or ping pong

[Sharogy]

in a perfect world where everyone has 4 alt one of each class and all perfectly geared and able to play each of them equally, u would never bring a warrior to ID ^^ except maybe on laethys

since the dps of classes is balanced based on dummy dps, it is only natural this would happen, as any non melee friendly fight war instantly become garbage while any non ranged fight ppl would just stack in to melee and pretend it didnt happen.

there is nothing wrong for having anti melee mechanics in an encounter, otherwise u do get another sicaron all day long. however melee dps should be significantly higher than ranged dps for it to be balanced. ranger/mage *cough*.

[Havors]

in a perfect world where everyone has 4 alt one of each class and all perfectly geared and able to play each of them equally, u would never bring a warrior to ID ^^ except maybe on laethys

since the dps of classes is balanced based on dummy dps, it is only natural this would happen, as any non melee friendly fight war instantly become garbage while any non ranged fight ppl would just stack in to melee and pretend it didnt happen.

there is nothing wrong for having anti melee mechanics in an encounter, otherwise u do get another sicaron all day long. however melee dps should be significantly higher than ranged dps for it to be balanced. ranger/mage *cough*.

Indeed!

For this reason alone if the new soul in expansion is not a ranged dps soul Trion are truly out of touch with how their game actually plays

[Bwick]

It's funny, seen a few RotP runs being advertised in 50 chat the past couple of days, every single one of them didn't want warriors.

We've been thrown into the situation rogues were a few patches ago, only their fix was easy, pump their dps. Our fix is purely the design of the game where melee is far harder and doesnt result in any reward. Why bring a class that is gonna put more strain on the healers or that has a severely higher chance of getting 1 shot or otherwise hurting the raid when you can just leave them out completely.

At this rate they should just delete the warrior class and convert us into rogues be easier for everyone and then trion can design their game around range without annoying anyone.

[Soulsurfing]

any non melee friendly fight war instantly become garbage while any non ranged fight ppl would just stack in to melee and pretend it didnt happen.

there is nothing wrong for having anti melee mechanics in an encounter, otherwise u do get another sicaron all day long. however melee dps should be significantly higher than ranged dps for it to be balanced. ranger/mage *cough*.

Nailed it

Board Trolls are in Denial

[Bwick]

Trion won't ever bump our dps again though, thats the situation it used to be and rogues complained and were marginalised.

The better solution would be to implement equal mechanics to boss fights, if theres an anti melee AOE then add an anti range AOE. If melee get disconnects to force their damage output down then add in boss reflects, shields and heals that prevent range from doing dps aswell.

Perhaps range shouldnt be able to just stand in one place and pew pew.

[Gutgehnaght]

Instead of giving us Melees higher DPS than Ranged Ones ... how about just adding a Buff to Bosses which raises our DPS while we are in Melee Range and Hitting with Melee Attacks?!

So our QQing Rogues don't have anything to cry about well they will anyways...

[Flashmemory]

The only way they can fix stuff like this is if they actually penalize players for going range. Max range person should deal less damage than 20mm. The closer the more damage.

Lets say they wanted everyone to stay within 20mm range to max damage. Then they can go ahead and buff warrior range ability to match other classes. Warriors should not be in anyway penalized in a game that offers many different variations of playstyles for other classes.

This is the problem I see. Most of our warriors( which the dev communicate with) are destroying the synergy and balance of war classes. There is no reason why a warrior should not use a gun or bow. Why have a slot for bow and make it useless and not even effect our range output anymore? Why have tons of our base talents not have synergy with other souls and builds?

If I am going to put points into armor talents( after it is capped) what purpose does it serve? If I am going to put points into block( after it is capped) what purpose does it serve? Rogues have the crit cap issue. Warriors have the same issue where progression is deterred the most by all the caps and all the synergy is being effected by such bad design. Based on what the raid warriors and the few warriors that communicate with dev I can assume they have 0 sense on how to effectively fix a class.

Warriors need to have as much synergy as all the other classes and the same amount of variations and play styles as other classes. I don't understand these 1k-2k post warriors who say I picked warriors to melee and to do physical damage only.. Then they unsub and you don't hear a damn peep from them when they realize that there are limitations to those things and it won't be fixed unless they introduce a mechanic to deal with non physical superiority on ALL classes and the fact that they would need to adjust the basic mechanic of range to deal with melee on an equal footing. You can't fix these things on just the class it has to be a total revamp of the game mechanics which would have to effect all classes.

We have clerics that have builds that can range dps/melee dps/ support both sides of the dps and healing with icars. Cabicars/senticars/inquisicars...etc. That is what I call a good built class in terms of synergy and the only thing they really need to adjust is scalability.

We have fights like first boss PF..where range is favored.. In Rotp Silgen and last boss range is favor. There is no doubt that range is favored on many of the raid bosses and from my experience warriors have the worse synergy, worse experience of all the classes in the majority of the game for quite awhile.

Conquest as a warrior is the worse experience. We have players that say warriors shouldn't be good in every place of the game. What a load of S###! Where are warriors good at that others are not or can't simply switch specs to deal with the situation?

They are the most limited of all the classes because of they have no variety. It is the same boring XXXX melee in and rotation. Even more limited now than 2h RW which actually offered mobility and decent range.

War AOE is nowhere near the potential of pro cab/sab aoe but we don't have to switch specs just swap crystals to marginalize our single target with the other top dps classes so that is all cool I guess
But remember half our souls are tank souls....how can warrior have a soul that just deals AOE when we are limited by the souls we have.

Our dps in warfronts is maginally good. I still see the top charts full with other classes. And running a dps meter I see range having the most damage output. Survival with out pocket healer is a problem. Our VK/Rb build has below average damage but survival is still terrible in comparison. Leap is easily one of the worse get out of jail cards because it can be interrupted!. Countless times have i been stunned/morphed and interrupted through it. The "blinks" of other classes breaks through these and not only that but tons easier to use and they can use it more often.

Warriors are barely functional outside of 1v1. They can tear classes apart but there are some builds that are direct counters to everything a warrior can make...it is a problem when the other class dev focuses on countering warriors and this class dev focuses on countering other warriors as well. This is what I see..this pull in crap only hurts the warrior class. The nerf to armor and block only hurt the warrior class. Did deflect get a nerf like block? Just lame and not QQ..straight facts...

[Bwick]

Did Alltha in PF last night, fun fight but damage was still crippled by the fact the whirlwinds kept sitting on the adds or the boss meaning large disconnects especially as they are so slow moving. Also dodging wisps is fun, head on a swivel and ballet shoes, still a ton of disconnect.

Was sat out on conclave again, was a hard mode kill (seems to be the only kill order the guild goes for).

Great post Flashmemory. Losing the RW spec was a bit of a killer, we gained a simpler rotation that isn't as crippled during the all too frequest disconnects but we also lost the run speed buff and knockback immunity which gave us far greater mobility than we currently have. Tbh, we almost rely on bards buffing run speed but raids rarely use it and go for the energy cost instead.

[Gynxz]

Indeed!

For this reason alone if the new soul in expansion is not a ranged dps soul Trion are truly out of touch with how their game actually plays

Be careful what you wish for.......

Many Rogues picked that class because they dont like the Range-type we've been forced to play often since .... beta?. I know the average prefers a brain-damage rotation but I would not like to have a "spear spam" warrior spec that was competitive like Ranger.

On the Thread Discussion...
Loving BloodStalker as a Rogue I do understand the challenge of having positional constrains. This spec has way higher position requirements, harder rotation and lack of AoE. Many rogues dont use BS but I have yet to meet the one that doesnt use it on a fight because of it being melee.

#1 I have yet to see the big difference between warriors having to move out of 3 waves on Ituziel and a mage being picked 3 times for DreadShot. Yeah Yeah waves are more frequent and affect all melee but Dreadshot has a higher penalty if missed and higher effect on mages rotation. They are just mechanics on fight.

#2 I understand that the more risk should give more rewards same way that things like: simple spec, Versatile, Great Damage+great Cleave, Gap closer, CC and debuffs should have lower rewards. You can go to raid with 1 dps spec, I have to take 5 dps specs(BS, Ranger,MM,Sab,Bard).

#3 Please dont bring Mak (normal mode) into this conversation, makes you look ignorant.

[Gutgehnaght]

"#1 I have yet to see the big difference between warriors having to move out of 3 waves on Ituziel and a mage being picked 3 times for DreadShot. Yeah Yeah waves are more frequent and affect all melee but Dreadshot has a higher penalty if missed and higher effect on mages rotation. They are just mechanics on fight. "

You mean Rusilas Reactive Ability, right? Yeah because there is NO Difference between a Boss Mechanic affecting ALL melees every few seconds and a Single-target-Easy-to-survive-ability which is totally random on ALL 20 Raiders...
And only 3 Waves on Ituziel, you and your Guild must do real massive DPS for only 3 waves and/or a real nice tactic. Sadly Me and my Guild are doing the ping pong variant and there are way more than 3 waves to dodge... oh and 1 Missed Dodge at less than 35% and your dead as a Warrior on Ituziel too (Rain is just fun)

So my point still stands... give every Melee a DMG Buff while attacking with Melee abilities! I Don't care if Rogues/Clerics get this one too, just welcome them at the front where you might get an easy and swift death!

[Kaybriar]

Did Alltha in PF last night, fun fight but damage was still crippled by the fact the whirlwinds kept sitting on the adds or the boss meaning large disconnects especially as they are so slow moving.

You can use DW para with WotM instead of WotW to help with this. However, if you don't have ID weapons you are certainly hurting your dps.

[Bwick]

Still parsed 2.8k or so on Alltha and was still standing at the end and in the top 3 dps in the fight.
I use the R50 weaps, either 2h or 1h when needed, can't get ID weaps till they start dropping regularly and don't think there are many in the guild anyway.

Tbh, never thought of WotM. Ended up just hugging the very edge, seemed to be safe enough provided the tanks had the boss positioned right.

[Soulsurfing]

What I don't understand is when we go range our DPS drops horribly, but a range class/spec (non warrior) can stand in melee range with their range spec and do full dps if required.

It makes no sense to have 0 penalty for standing in melee range when you are running a range spec/class..

Can you imagine if they did 25% less DPS when at 0-5 range from boss?

Instantly on fights like Sicaron, grug, or Rusilla , range classes would not necessary be top dog any more. And melee would be king.

And can you imagine the holy hell they would cry soooo much. Even though its just a couple of fights... Rusila hardly counts bc they would just get DPS loss on iron wrath.

Yet this very moment of them realizing hey I'm not the BEST at EVERYTHING in my range spec would hopefully give them some insight into how we feel on a fight where a raid leader won't let us melee.

Such as the beginning of estrode, when people were still figuring it out, raid leaders wouldnt allow melee and would put us in dumb para or RB specs. Or early Iztuiel progression, where range has it so much easier. They can see all the waves coming with plenty of time, meanwhile our face is in iztuel's butt, and we have to ping pong around. Or conclave where the raid leader refuses to allow melee on p3. Stuff like that.

I just want all these uber range people to see for a moment what it is like. Please big daddy trion, please give a range DPS penalty when within 0-5 or 0-10 range. Let them see how the other half lives. Let them see how bad it sucks to be partially useless on some fights, especially in guilds that don't have the best raid leaders or mechanics down.

I do not count rogues as a melee class because they always have the option to switch to a viable range dps build. That mindset of having NO OPTION, just does not exist within the rogue brain. Warriors have no option for a high dps range spec- rogues have an option. Although they can melee - they are not a true melee class, in the way that warriors are all melee. Let's stop being politically correct and saying "including rogues" when we're talking about melee.