ID Conclave warrior exclusion

[Soulsurfing]

If someone wrote an authoritative strat for hm conclave so we can post it to guild forums to show them: No, melee is not useless and no warrior *has* to go range, i would have your e-babies.

Tired of being forced to go para and gimp myself because i dont have ID one handers. I'm grinding out rank 50 just so i have 1 handers slightly better then HK..

[BrownsMageNerfDelivery]

Different results for different guilds with different strats. Stop trying to be all high and mighty telling people they suck because their guild does the fight a certain way. It isn't helping. Ok, so, our warriors, including myself, aren't dropped from the fight. We maintain top DPS through most of the encounter and when our gracious tank, Steinbrenner, finds it in his heart to kite whatshisname away from wisp AOE we can charge in for mad deeps. Other than that, some of us stay aoe on the adds that are alive for e-peen parses.

He's gotta spam that macro telling us to heal him.

But regardless, working around it as warrior DPS is about optimizing strategy. Otherwise I'm going to be collecting scythes.

[Sir Thrace]

So, you design these bosses that punish melee players forcing everyone to range (much like estrode was) and you STILL refuse to give us a ranged soul?
Sure we can go paragon / RB, but the skills have massive cooldowns and hit for a fraction of the dps our melee attacks hit for for 10m shorter range than other ranged classes.

The end result is guilds drop warriors from raids regardless of gear or experience. Thanks Trion. That redesign of warrior in 1.8 really put us on good footing going forward.

I guess it's just easier to design mechanics that punish players closer to the boss than further out.

Giving us a ranged soul is a TERRIBLE idea. We are Warriors. I don't want a ranged soul so we have a bunch of warriors running around throwing **** from a distance all the time instead of hoping into the trenches and cleaving ish down.

[Bwick]

Then change the boss mechanics not to punish melee players. All of the latest bosses are pushing warriors further and further down the pecking order due to massive disconnects.

Warboss Drak has an anti melee AOE.
Ituziel has the fire walls which cause huge disconnects.
Conclave has anti melee AOE's.
Maklamos has anti melee AOE.

Atrophinius has it's jumping mechanic which punishes melee if anyone moves out of position or if running with too many melee.

The game is changing to include far more melee disconnect, which is fine if our dps when in range is nuts but right now with 100% uptime we're in the same area as other classes. The second we get disconnects though our dps drops through the floor quite rapidly. Sure some of the mechanics are managable and clever positioning can help you get through it, but as a raid warriors are becoming more and more of a liability, they have to deal with far more instant kill mechanics and are infinitely more prone to dps loss. Last night our warriors were the difference between killing Ituziel and not, we hit the enrage a few times with only a few % left, but the dps loss of the warriors was enough to cripple the raid into failure.

These mechanics are cool and all, but they punish melee FAR more than they punish ranged.

[mm6502]

Sure some of the mechanics are managable and clever positioning can help you get through it, but as a raid warriors are becoming more and more of a liability, they have to deal with far more instant kill mechanics and are infinitely more prone to dps loss.

The best thing is - all other classes are ranged, and usually vote for a tactic where they do not have to move at all. They simply push their way, because otherwise their DPS is dropping.

[jopok]

If someone wrote an authoritative strat for hm conclave so we can post it to guild forums to show them: No, melee is not useless and no warrior *has* to go range, i would have your e-babies.

Tired of being forced to go para and gimp myself because i dont have ID one handers. I'm grinding out rank 50 just so i have 1 handers slightly better then HK..

We kill Witchlord first, kiting him up the stairs and around. That's 100% uptime on the boss. With Packmaster, I run in and out depending on when unstable conflag is up, obviously stopping dps with feedback. I just run around flamespearing Emberlord and talking to the other warriors in /s until he's dead. We normally run 2 dps warriors though because we have 2-3 war tanks on the fight.

Btw, if your gm is questioning why you're aoeing in certain parts of the fight, he shows an extreme lack of knowledge about warriors or the fight in general, which is pretty terrible for a gm. That mage is also being a (_))=D.

[Kaybriar]

Warboss Drak has an anti melee AOE.
Ituziel has the fire walls which cause huge disconnects.
Conclave has anti melee AOE's.
Maklamos has anti melee AOE.

It is definitely getting a little frustrating to be honest. The last two bosses in PF are even more unfriendly then the ones you mentioned above.

It is almost like they specifically design fights to punish melee. I know that sounds silly but I can't think of any other reason for it.

I guess it just ends up making us better players, so I suppose I shouldn't complain.

[MiO]

Warboss Drak has an anti melee AOE.
Ituziel has the fire walls which cause huge disconnects.
Conclave has anti melee AOE's.
Maklamos has anti melee AOE.

Atrophinius has it's jumping mechanic which punishes melee if anyone moves out of position or if running with too many melee..

One of warboss drak's minis has a buff that makes incoming caster abilities heal him
Ituziel has fire waves which are a serious issue for anyone
Conclave has anti-everyone aoes ... move ***** move
Maklamos desolations can be handled by a tank at range



Even if you could continue to melee dps atrophinious during song of steel you'd stop anyway because of the threat mechanic.



Oh no! deez mechanics, they be stoppin me from delivering all my l33t dips.


What-ever man

[Kaybriar]

One of warboss drak's minis has a buff that makes incoming caster abilities heal him

Nobody cares about the first add on Warboss. Ranged DPS still crushes melee dps on this fight. Your point fails.

Ituziel has fire waves which are a serious issue for anyone

Ranged dps have almost a full view of the room and can react much faster to waves than melee (who are on the bosses ***). Not to mention Brimstone that ranged never have to worry about. Again your point is bad.

Conclave has anti-everyone aoes ... move ***** move

We aren't talking about the crystals that everyone has to move out of. Once again you are missing the point.

Maklamos desolations can be handled by a tank at range

This mechanic is a joke for everyone.

Your points are bad and you should feel bad. Have you even done the last 2 bosses of PF?

[Wylt]

The last two bosses in PF are even more unfriendly then the ones you mentioned above.

My guild typically clears PF after our normal raids end, which excludes me from attending. However, I have done the first 3 bosses before I ran out of time and had to leave. For Alltha I ran 38 rb 28 champ 0 vk with Storm Blade up until I, or a tank, got the poison debuff at which point I shifted to Planar Blade for the rest of the fight. For the most part I only died on wipes and I maintained top dps for the entirety.

I will certainly grant you that the more melee you have the more cumbersome that fight becomes, however... it is certainly doable to dps her full time as a melee.

Twyl I haven't been online for, so I won't speak to it.


Back to the Infernal Dawn part of this conversation:

1 - Drak is extremely minimal impact on melee and arguably harder on ranged (can't hit first boss during shield, so unless your strat includes aoe'ing the adds, rdps lose more dps on this fight than melee do).

2 - Earth mini favors warriors

3 - Fire mini is fine for melee, just keep charge/blink handy

4 - Magma mini favors warriors (rift storm / cornered beast with your back to him during blind, splash aoe on adds, etc)

5 - Ituziel it's easy to pull 3800 to 4200 dps with ping-pong strat, more if you tank him against a wall. I've pulled 3900 on him in BM using ping-pong strat, getting hit by 0 waves and maintaining crit debuff for the raid so... while I get that it can be frustrating, it's really not all that hard. Nor does it prevent melee from shining. Will you beat every rogue and mage? No. And we probably shouldn't on every boss. Good for them they get a boss they can shine at.

6 - Conclave all depends on strategy. My guild has a rule that all warriors should be rdps for the fight. We melee & splash mc'd on pigface, then do packmaster next at range, then the Ereetu tank stands dead center eating aoe while everyone ranges. Yes, this gimps warriors. I've run it as 38 para, 44 para, 51 rb DW and last night as 38 rb 28 champ. I parsed best with 38 28 jumping in for melee when I personally knew mechanics would allow it. Raid leaders will typically give you some freedom to play as you wish when you can prove you won't suck doing it. Also keep in mind that sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. I didn't ask if I could play 38 28 rb champ, I just did it. I got a few "lol wow" tells when people saw me survive the whole fight in 2h with our silly strat, jumping in and out of melee.

7 - Maklamos... very melee friendly. Stand at max range and never move, and you get a freeby add to cleave every now and then to pad your numbers. How is this unfriendly to melee? 4500 to 5k dps on this fight is easily doable and that's with 0 friendly fire damage from debuff (because you shouldn't be getting the debuff in the first place).

8 - Rusila - run kegs and shush. 38 para with pvp leap and you're very mobile. Nobody cares about dps in phase 1. As phase 2 starts reset your meters, you should still parse fairly high.

9 - Laethys is mana from heaven, for warriors. It's actually a bit unfair to other dps classes because they really just have no way to compete.


All in all, ID is relatively basic in melee friendliness. It's not any better or worse than HK, imo. As a warrior I found HK easy, and I find ID pretty easy as well. Alltha is a fun challenge to keep your time-on-target high, and as a result I really love that fight.

I do find it ironic, however, that 2h weapon upgrades drop (supposedly) from the 2 bosses in ID that warriors are typically asked to DW (Conclave, Maelforge).


Aegis, and Affinity prior to that, has yet to see a single Scythe drop.

[Kaybriar]

I never said the third boss in PF is not doable for melee, just unfriendly.

Also you might want to try 38/22/6 para and just use Way of The Mountain instead of WoTW. It helps you not get knocked back by the anoying tsunami things.

[Kaybriar]

Stuff

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. In fact, I would't even call any of the anti-melee mechanics in this game hard. The point is, we are not compensated for these mechanics reducing our dps more than any other class in the game.

Therefore, because of the increased risk and potentially lower dps of a melee class, a lot of guilds simply choose to bring mages or rogues. I simply do not agree with Trion's stance on this.

Honestly if it wasn't for Laethys, we would be in a much worse situation right now than we already are.

[TheGrinnz]

Atrophinius has it's jumping mechanic which punishes melee if anyone moves out of position or if running with too many melee.

This isn't even true anymore, if positioned properly there is no difficulty being melee and you would need to bring 7 warriors to have too much melee.

[Bluelightt]

This isn't even true anymore, if positioned properly there is no difficulty being melee and you would need to bring 7 warriors to have too much melee.

His charge still punishes melee heavily. The uptime is going to be low compared to other classes and the chance to die is much higher.

[Sharogy]

JUST saying,

U can always TANK right?, assume 5 war raid, -3 tank -1 bm, u only need to carry 1 .