Thoughts on Conquest for Warriors

[Flashmemory]

I'm running a bard spec with 35m Fanout, getting to R50 (on vials) was minimally different.

I rarely ever died on my warrior (running RV/Pal/WL) unless our zerg was completely overwhelmed, in which case everyone is dead so it doesn't much matter. I pulled the MMs or Cabs from the fringes trying to get their salvos off, and 90% of the time they are dead before they hit the ground.

Maybe you're just playing on a crappy computer and not rendering as many players or as quickly? I don't know... but I could see where someone with poor frame rates would have issues playing a frontline meat shield and making intelligent pulls while not getting pulled.

I've played on my "other location" PC and Conquest is pretty much garbage when you're getting 5-10 FPS low render in zergs. At home, I leave the game on ultra and still maintain 20+ FPS and zero input lag for all but the final boss, and playing intelligently is a lot easier.

The QQ sky has fallen is a bunch of dung. Groups that queue together and re-form for coordination are using tanks to pull - it's one of the most potent abilities on the battlefield. Positioning is *always* important, and CQ just exemplifies this.

Pulling players in is overrated(i've been doing it since 51 vk got its buff and that is what 1.5?) You again show your ignorance. The problem with conquest not rendering players fast enough has little to do with my connection and GPu/Cpu. It is mostly a design of the game engine and how it handles rendering the npc.. Other games i played had layers of the same instance to deal with the problem. You can switch instances on the fly if your not with your friends or you can tell them to come to instance 2 if 1 is full. This game chooses to shoot players into another layer of the game although they are in the same instance. It is working off displacement and other techniques. It is designed so x amount of players/npc are visible, when those go invisible, then the others become visible.

Here is some facts to twiddle your thumbs around since you are indeed showing a deep passion to keep warriors the same which is boring and not challenging play style. ANd especially to me NOTHING NEW.

With a rogue I gain more favor especially being partied with more AOE range classes. This is a fact based on my observation. You say that I am wrong. A few players agree with me. I have yet to see any agree with you. So you are on your on boat with that belief in my eyes.

Now let us consider the tank role in pvp. Let us compare and distinguish benefits of rogues and other classes. This is why synergy with warrior tank souls need to be looked at in depth.

Let us look at the necessities you would need first. For warfronts you will want to have a 2h weapon or dw weapons. A shield and a bow. So to be effective currently you are force to grind the most of all the classes. Pre AP scaling the best built warriors stacked crit. warriors used leather pieces dex rings and ammy. ..etc. because the huge crit dependency. Just throwing that out there to show that warriors were always poorly built class. Now with AP scaling we can make it work with RB/champ to stack our own classes gear which is a good thing but we still need to have the most grind of all the classes to be effective in pvp.

Let us look at rogues. Rogues need 2 weapons and bow...and because of crit cap issues they can go for AP ring/ammy etc. May add since they are .5str/dex Ap they are not penalized for going that route as well. Because of synergy with RS and the way RS works they do not require other types of gear to be effective and therefore require less time investment to gear appropriately. Because of range and mobility they can actually play with more pve intended gear than warriors which lowers grind evven further if they designate themselves to playing 2 piece MM etc.

Warrior needs two hander which is 2 x the favor of a one hander. A bow. 1 to 2 one handers and a shield. That is more favor to earn at a slower pace than any other class. This doesn't even include builds you may want to get dex rings/ammy and str rings/ammy but that was pre AP scaling.(Just putting that out there for the f of it just to show how warriors were always badly designed.)

Other classes can pve in pvp conquest and be EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE THAN full blown out pvp warrior class. Truth. They can shred apart reactors from range and quickly gear switch to pvp if enemy approaches.

Point is that not only do warrior class need more favor to be effective in pvp but also they want warriors to grind the most favor to be good and not only that but other classes are far more effective with pve in pvp..so they have the least grind to get there and in the end they are not forced into any style of play in conquest like warrior. Also warriors lack synergy that other classes have built into specs so they depend on other classes to pocket heal them.

Your obsession with pulling a player in and forcing them to play just like a charging in warrior and suiciding is basically saying since we are force to do it at least we can make you do it so its all good then ...is not cool.

Warriors of rift are not warriors of DND or other games. They don't have to be designed to be only melee class. They can use rifles/bows and get AP from PAs for it but it is nothing but a stack stick.

Why do we need a bow and gun...wouldn't it just be useful if they just put a shield slot there and we can use shield with two hander? That would at least take away some of the grind.

[Perticus]

If the fights are all 20 guys standing 30 meters apart from each other, sure, range is king, but that kind of fight is player choice. As players learn conquest, you'll see more close-ranged fights where warriors do well, and more rogues switching to melee specs as they notice they are getting into HtH more often.

For example, right now, if you try to lead a charge, you're alone and get focused fired to death. But eventually melee will learn to look for someone leading the charge and will follow them in. You see this by the 20-29 group, in Warhammer onLine (and yes, the 10-19 group is almost exactly like conquest is now -- spamming sorcerers and lots of dead maruaders.) As a healer, I learned to recognize my guys charging, pop cooldowns and focus heal them. Then dps learned to focus fire the 2nd or 3rd guy... .

Zergs also tend to lose in warhammer. Smaller groups just avoid them and recap behind. Hopefully, when(?) Trion makes winning, or coming in second, mean more, we'll see smaller groups on both sides running around capping and skirmishing.

[Bloodbourne]

xxxxxxx . . . . . . . . . . . xxxxxxx Standard Range vs Range.
xxxxxxx |-----25m-----| xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx . . . . . . . . . . . xxxxxxx
.. ../\
. . .||
. .xxxx
. .xxxx <--Group of mounted warriors. What happens??

Play with some intelligence.

[Wulf9]

When I PvP I usually do it on my Cleric. But I love to have warriors around me.
They're great to build convictions and mana off :P

[mm6502]

<--Group of mounted warriors. What happens??

1/ Warriors get dismounted because of damage flying around
Next...

[mm6502]

Edit:
Now I see what you meant. No way that is going to happen. As of now, it is near impossible to gather half of your raid together. When 5 out of 10 are the mounted warriors, then the other 5 would have to be healers (left unguarded so to say). In a second they get fired upon, they will forget some warriors far far away are to be healed.

[Pixel Monkey]

warriors are dangerous by default
they are the only class i fear for my toon from.
a well played rogue is worse but theyre not very common

[Soulsurfing]

Pretty much what War said is to flank the enemy, which I do all the time. I'm stuck with 20 range so I have to hit them where they're not looking... or I need healers ready to go. Somehow the healers know to heal the snot out of me. I'm the dwarf bouncing around throwing aoe's and rift storm to melt people. Even if I die it's a distraction which allows others to blow them up while they focus me. I'm not happy with that role btw. 20 range in a 30 range world is nonsense. I'm still trying to figure out how Trion can justify that situation when they balanced everyone's dps to be the same on dummies, and then gave tank parity. Yet warriors still lack range and heals. Even a less gimped t2 death rr HP leech ability would be good. But they seem inflexible that warriors shall not do x or y, yet pimp everything else away to other classes like we were the ***** of babylon. Our motto should be : Warriors... givin' it away for free.

But flanking, pulling, culling the herd from the side, etc. are all valid warrior strats so you can be useful. Highly recommend the 32/26/10 spec. Full tank is useless. If your team is not healing you **** and find one that will. This is my biggest complaint, aside from range, and boss tagging, in conquest. Is when you queue up for certain teams, none of those morons will have any healers, which makes a warrior all but useless. I have found a team which does have healers, and they seem to let me do not too bad. In the last 8 days I went from rank 40 to rank 50, and let me get some decent upgrades I can use for PVE raid along the way.

[Bloodbourne]

Edit:
Now I see what you meant. No way that is going to happen. As of now, it is near impossible to gather half of your raid together. When 5 out of 10 are the mounted warriors, then the other 5 would have to be healers (left unguarded so to say). In a second they get fired upon, they will forget some warriors far far away are to be healed.

Give me 4 other warriors rocking my pvp spec, we'll take a 5-man without healers in and while they're tee'ing off against the zerg, rush in to aoe the piss out of them. First thing to come flying at us.... fanout. Block, block, blockedy block. HoB Essences/trinkets. Next thing are cleric and mage instants. Spellbreaker immunity. by this point half are dead as the zerg pushes in. Some are running, the rest are dying. It's like something out of 300. It ****in works. Everytime.

[Carinae]

I'll probably replace my BM leveling spec, which I never use now, with a 51 WL, and just go pull-crazy. At least that and the calls should be vaguely useful. General's Order + Locked Down seems like it'd do very unfortunate things to a group of pulled squishies.

Unfortunately, 51 WL isn't very good. I've been playing 51 WL/15 RV and its marginally better than other tank specs, its still a LONG way from actually being useful.

Notable problems:
1) All good abilities require 3 AP to use. Good luck generating 3 AP...

2) Most player's are pull immune. 75% of the warriors in conquest are running WL/VK tank specs, when you factor in other snares, about half the targets will be immune.

3) Spread raid groups. There's 20 people around you, too bad only 5 are in your raid group.

If you want to be effective in conquest, play as another class. Best case, we're 75% as useful as another class. Basically, if you're below Rank 40, you can troll.

[TheGrinnz]

Basically, if you're below Rank 40, you can troll.

That's what I always do on my warrior anyway. Void Summon Void Summon Void Summon

[stefe]

I am ranking up my warrior alt to r50. I am experimenting with a max block spec for survivability and max favor. I use the mirror for heal on block.

Spec is something like 30pally 7 reaver 29 warlord.

Its probly a bit different than that but the key is i have 55% block without aggresive block, heal on block, heal on crit, and essentially a 35 m damage range since you "tag " all the mm by blocking. Mirror procs alot and i often do hundreds of hps by staying a little back from the very front line. Sometimes i can spread a reaver dot. Its not as safe as standing in the back soaking favor but it seems more fun..

Oh also very important is getting attack points on block so i am always able to keep entrench up for self and raid damage reduction. Aoe stun is a lifesaver as well often lets me heroic leap back out if pulled.

Combined with mirror, and all the blocks and heals i can often backpeddle or straffe back out while blocking.