AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Enzane]

Atrius, by my mind warrior have too much + hit in talents. New gear made those talents not that viable.
It would be very cool to change beastmaster and/or champion +hit talent to +crit for example.
Beastmaster one can be changed + 10 % crit chance to bleeds for example and champion one for + 5 crit while wielding twohander.

[Gargoyles]

RW waterfall rotation is not hard nor is it complex its still 4 buttons 5 if you want to chuck in SB. Now what people are want is a change weve been playing RW for what seems like a eternity.

Actually with the right keyboard or mouse like end raiders use its 2 buttons. 3 buttons if you want shifting blades. 4 buttons to add proper timing to TtT. You actually may have to use the buttons in a different order for aoe. There is nothing magical or hard about the rotation using this method and absolutely 0 macro lag.

So anyone posting in favor of rotation understands the mechanics and don't want to lose that advantage over the common player. It needs to end.

[Sebb]

Actually with the right keyboard or mouse like end raiders use its 2 buttons. 3 buttons if you want shifting blades. 4 buttons to add proper timing to TtT. You actually may have to use the buttons in a different order for aoe. There is nothing magical or hard about the rotation using this method and absolutely 0 macro lag.

So anyone posting in favor of rotation understands the mechanics and don't want to lose that advantage over the common player. It needs to end.

It's not necessarily about # of buttons but about something that makes it interesting to play. Going on the PTS, it's hard to imagine wanting to do RB DPS over a 10-15 min long fight. Honestly it's hard to get myself to parse longer than 5min of mash 3 APs then hit your finisher. With the reaver variant at least you have an extra dot to keep after, but still that's not even close to intricate.

Personally, I want to see DPS require skill because the challenge of doing it correctly makes it worth doing. I want to know when I do well and I want to know when I fail. Setting it up so that you basically cannot fail as long as you can count to 3 isn't a game worth playing in my opinion.

[Steelwind]

It's not necessarily about # of buttons but about something that makes it interesting to play. Going on the PTS, it's hard to imagine wanting to do RB DPS over a 10-15 min long fight. Honestly it's hard to get myself to parse longer than 5min of mash 3 APs then hit your finisher. With the reaver variant at least you have an extra dot to keep after, but still that's not even close to intricate.

Personally, I want to see DPS require skill because the challenge of doing it correctly makes it worth doing. I want to know when I do well and I want to know when I fail. Setting it up so that you basically cannot fail as long as you can count to 3 isn't a game worth playing in my opinion.

I hate to say this Sebb, the last time people wanted more than a two button rotation, Atrius ended up nerfing Fiery Burst.

[Sebb]

I hate to say this Sebb, the last time people wanted more than a two button rotation, Atrius ended up nerfing Fiery Burst.

And let's see what the new finisher does. Hope PTS gets updated today.

[Gargoyles]

It's not necessarily about # of buttons but about something that makes it interesting to play. Going on the PTS, it's hard to imagine wanting to do RB DPS over a 10-15 min long fight. Honestly it's hard to get myself to parse longer than 5min of mash 3 APs then hit your finisher. With the reaver variant at least you have an extra dot to keep after, but still that's not even close to intricate.

Personally, I want to see DPS require skill because the challenge of doing it correctly makes it worth doing. I want to know when I do well and I want to know when I fail. Setting it up so that you basically cannot fail as long as you can count to 3 isn't a game worth playing in my opinion.

So there is a difference in 1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2 rb or champ. Maybe hit 2 sooner if you get an extra ap point.

Instead of 1,2,1,2,1,2 maybe add extra 1 before Sli. Rw spec?

As a matter of fact for someone not wanting to be bored you argued against 10 sec fb. Because your macro wont work.

[Rizaz]

So there is a difference in 1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2 rb or champ. Maybe hit 2 sooner if you get an extra ap point.

Instead of 1,2,1,2,1,2 maybe add extra 1 before Sli. Rw spec?

As a matter of fact for someone not wanting to be bored you argued against 10 sec fb. Because your macro wont work.

In the RW spec you have to manage weapon master procs, oGCDs, FBs, and a tight 8GCD rotation. If you slack on these things, you're going to lose hundreds of dps.

In something easily predictable (like RB or champ) you don't have any real decisions to make. You simply 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 2 over and over and over. Even with a 10s FB thrown in, it's still comparatively easy.

In RW specs there is significantly more decision making and skill than in RB or Champ specs.

[Kopetzki]

We've been managing SLI and RW since the old school BM specs, it's gonna be exciting to switch it up and have some other specs to raid with, no matter how simple or complex they are.

[Sebb]

So there is a difference in 1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2 rb or champ. Maybe hit 2 sooner if you get an extra ap point.

Instead of 1,2,1,2,1,2 maybe add extra 1 before Sli. Rw spec?

As a matter of fact for someone not wanting to be bored you argued against 10 sec fb. Because your macro wont work.

I argued against 10s FB because it was not feasible to constantly supply dps finishers with a pure RB build. 8s would have been just fine. You had the choice to either overwrite a tick of FB by rotating SB/FB or by using EB as well and having to use a "4th" builder every 5 finishers. That's just poor design because a soul should be able to sustain it'self. While the new finisher fixes this problem, I don't foresee it giving RB a rotation, or anything to manage to get dps. Rotating finishers isn't too complicated, but takes us a step in the right direction of an iterative process. You'll note that I also suggested several times to make us work our spears into a rotation to keep a debuff up, or did you forget about that?

And yea pretty much everything Rizaz said. You have 12 different actions to take inside a 12 second window, some requiring more thought than others -especially after the energy fix where you had to decide if you were going to use SB or not that rotation and make a call on when to use your FS accordingly.

[Flashmemory]

Balancing dps first should be a priority regardless of how simple rotations is. When you add synergy is when things should be complicated. And I agree to disagree that RW was a tough rotation. It was easy to master but the problem was the RNG from crit and wm procs which is what through people off. Mostly nothing that is playered control really. Sure some leg work was required but ripping an ability down to uselessness and destroying it in other specs just to make it have some brain work...which can easily be master over time does not seem logical.

I think right now the community just wants comparative dps so they can use other builds. When that is done raiders will want to roll with rb, bm, and maybe RW warriors just for the buffs/aoe. Their are "special players too"..you know the ones like the rogues spamming fanout. Can't just cater to a bunch of elitist..it will screw with the marginal and new players will get turned off. I actually would like a decent rotation but i think worrying about that can come later when they work on more synergy between classes. It can be as easy as putting a cd or reducing a cd on an ability tbh.

I don't like the fiery burst change for pvp..but there is much more changes happening so I can't agree or disagree with it. Yeah and fix sweeping strike so warriors can't attack players across the map. Maybe keep the mechanic but reduce its range. It is a useful mechanic just not in its bugged formed.

[Gargoyles]

In the RW spec you have to manage weapon master procs, oGCDs, FBs, and a tight 8GCD rotation. If you slack on these things, you're going to lose hundreds of dps.

In something easily predictable (like RB or champ) you don't have any real decisions to make. You simply 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 2 over and over and over. Even with a 10s FB thrown in, it's still comparatively easy.

In RW specs there is significantly more decision making and skill than in RB or Champ specs.

The only thing in this spec you have to manage is the extra ap point before sli. The rest comes from pushing the 1,2,1,2 if your hardware macros are set. Wm procs only need managed on sli. Ogcds are managed by the hardware macros as well. I can disect former posts for examples of what a ui using this method would look like. But again my last post stands... those who have knowledge of the hardware macros will fight to keep similiar specs alive. I cannot argue the fact that missing the proc on sli is huge but it is the one and only hard part in this rotation.

[Steelwind]

Are we really having another discussion about who can mash buttons the most artistic way? Really?

[Gargoyles]

I argued against 10s FB because it was not feasible to constantly supply dps finishers with a pure RB build. 8s would have been just fine. You had the choice to either overwrite a tick of FB by rotating SB/FB or by using EB as well and having to use a "4th" builder every 5 finishers. That's just poor design because a soul should be able to sustain it'self. While the new finisher fixes this problem, I don't foresee it giving RB a rotation, or anything to manage to get dps. Rotating finishers isn't too complicated, but takes us a step in the right direction of an iterative process. You'll note that I also suggested several times to make us work our spears into a rotation to keep a debuff up, or did you forget about that?

And yea pretty much everything Rizaz said. You have 12 different actions to take inside a 12 second window, some requiring more thought than others -especially after the energy fix where you had to decide if you were going to use SB or not that rotation and make a call on when to use your FS accordingly.

Having a 10 sec fb just forced rb to not use an ogcd 1 button finisher macro. 0 pt. Champion gives a gcd finisher that would have added management. Making icy burst makes the problem worse. We should have just fought to make gcd finishers better.

I agree spears should be in some way used for pve. Pvp they have at least a little purpose. Our ranged abilities suck.

[mattya802]

Having a 10 sec fb just forced rb to not use an ogcd 1 button finisher macro. 0 pt. Champion gives a gcd finisher that would have added management. Making icy burst makes the problem worse. We should have just fought to make gcd finishers better.

I agree spears should be in some way used for pve. Pvp they have at least a little purpose. Our ranged abilities suck.

PB is getting a boost to the PTS soon. Hopefully it's enough to not have to just use all RB finishers in one macro.

[Gargoyles]

Are we really having another discussion about who can mash buttons the most artistic way? Really?

Actually, yes. And yeah its about that important. I want something to test.