And the unwritten reality is across the board bumps only happen if they are required. ATM, raid buffed, warriors parse as high or higher than other classes.
If you want to test fully raid buffed, I suggest you get your raid on PTS and do it.I'm on alpha any time. Raid buff and we'll see.
Hit the raid parses. BM and RB didn't magically fix themselves, and the pan-warrior buff didn't just come from nowhere.
This is what's scheduled:
-bring them up to the DPS of other classes.
This has been the plan for a month. Some of you are all of a sudden, after succeeding with the first goal, claiming the second goal was never necessary, even as this was the goal as of two days ago.
So as I have not seen any proof whatsoever that these goals have been met after the paragon nerf, the champion nerf and reboot, and pretty much nothing has been done to RB and BM, people need to provide a reason why the plans should be cancelled and one of the two major planned changes is wrong.
If you're thinking they're going to hold on ID until they're done, so you just want them to be done now, that's now how this works really. If you're parsing in some back-alley secret meetings with your raid teams then flooding the devs' inbox with personal data, you're getting them and trion in trouble when the majority of players don't hear the conversations.
This topic has already proven that ten guys going behind the backs of a thousand raiders and inciting changes that never needed to be isn't the way to go about a uniform message.
Warriors are expecting a passive boost to the class. Not coming? Better prove why.
Proof doesn't have to come before 1.8 because the boost doesn't. We should be fine for 2 weeks seeing how 1.8 pans out in HK before ID starts.
It doesn't matter if you have seen proof or not esp since you have apparently done no full raid testing.So as I have not seen any proof whatsoever that these goals have been met after the paragon nerf, the champion nerf and reboot, and pretty much nothing has been done to RB and BM, people need to provide a reason why the plans should be cancelled and one of the two major planned changes is wrong.
Warriors who want some passive boost better prove why it is necessary. Currently warriors are parsing as good or better than other classes. You would know this if you did something useful like test fully raid buffed instead of imagining some perceived conspiracy theory.Warriors are expecting a passive boost to the class. Not coming? Better prove why.
Haven't seen a raid parse in this topic since before any changes were made to any of the specs. Suddenly saying that not only is the buff not needed, but warriors need more nerfs is a gigantic leap that absolutely no one should buy for a minute in this thread.
Some of your all's alleged raid parses already cost us weeks of development and miscommunication. Now you're doing it again apparently.
Trion needs to cut teams out of the equation like they cut gear out of the equation. Raid-debuffed dummy that casts field effect raid buffs on its enemies. Would do wonders to stop this ineffectual give and take between players and devs and players and players.
Unless I've missed a page of posts along the way, I've seen ZERO "fully raid buffed" parses with mages/rogues posted in the last week (the only time that actually matters, based on the many tweaks and changes that have happened recently).
None of us can say whether warriors are parsing at the same level as mages/rogues with any objectivity until a raid-buffed parse (also showing comparably-geared mages and rogues) is made.
Durango, your information/opinion is based on old data... and PFalcon, your information is speculation based on the wide assortment of individual varying-amounts-of-buffs-and-gear parses.
Lets get a raid going on PTS and settle this... and give Atrius some good data while we're at it.
Lol I'm just leaning back in my chair asking how a BM and RB spec who hasn't been touched, and one has actually been nerfed, can suddenly go from being so far behind other champion specs as to nerf those specs, and so far behind other classes as to result in a final goal of a warrior pan-boost...to now being on par with the best warrior specs, who are now on par with the other class specs...
...and the change that caused this miraculous balancing?
...atrius stopped posting and let people's imaginations run wild for 5 whole work days.
He's good. He's not THAT good.
The only way warriors are finished with DPS tweaks is if the other 3 classes got nerfs over the last week, or if one of Atrius' main goals was just plain based on bad information.
You all gave him that information, I'm assuming. Now you're saying you were wrong?
I'll be on alpha, any time. Someone, anyone, cut the secrets and debuff that dummy.
An across the board buff was promised, me being on the pts i fully expect these buffs to come as planned because it is severely needed especially looking at other callings parses on the pts.
Well DW/Para was overperforming and was nerfed. Champion, as you stated, was nerfed too but, with a little tweak, it got up to the point of being on-par with the nerfed DW builds. So, in all logic, all builds are now standing a bit higher than they used to be, especially thanks to the AP scale modifications as well as the PA changes.
I can't get my raid to go on the pts and parse, it seems like we are only 4 or 5 persons interested in what is coming for us all. I feel like we aren't going to down ID first boss anytime soon. And to say we are our shard top guild... This really tells *sigh*.
I still trust Atrius to be doing what is needed to be done.
Fact is, parsing on dummy is one thing, parsing on actual encounter is something else.
I can see why they accuse you of conspiracy Theory, pfalcon! And maybe you're actually right, but not for the reasons you think. A few select guilds were able to go and test ID, under the watchful eye of the developpers. I reckon it was not only to tweak the encounters and adjust different thingies, but they probably also monitored how well everyone/every calling was performing.
So in essence, yes, there were private info exchange done. But they were concerning things we can not even replicate since we do not have access to those encounters. We haven't been able to test all those 1.8 modifications in an actual fight, not even on Murdantix. Will the numbers be radically different? Probably. Well, maybe not on Murdantix, since he IS a dummy anyway.
We can only foretold things. 51/9/6 will be badly hurt by heavy movement/Disconnect encounters. Para builds will stink at AoE-mixed encounters. BM will cry when their pets are getting eaten by cleaves. etc.
Just be patient and trust Atrius to do the right thing. To be honest, I felt I was a little too low compared to my BD pal, unbuffed, on dummy, but only by a small marging ( 100/200 ) which could either widen or narrow with raid buffs. I can't really predict this, actually.
So maybe we need a little boost, maybe not.
I think that if we are indeed a bit low, this will be known on Live shortly after the release, and probably be quickly solved by yet another hotfix in the next few days. Not the end of the world. Atrius could even have prepared everything in case this scenario happens and hopefully we won't have a quick-n-dirty fix.
As far as a raid parse, you probably won't see one from any of the top guilds that are doing dps testing in preparation for ID.
This is once again complete fabrication on your part.Some of your all's alleged raid parses already cost us weeks of development and miscommunication. Now you're doing it again apparently.
While that might be nice, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.Trion needs to cut teams out of the equation like they cut gear out of the equation. Raid-debuffed dummy that casts field effect raid buffs on its enemies. Would do wonders to stop this ineffectual give and take between players and devs and players and players.
My information is based on current data (as in the current state of the PTS at this very moment).Durango, your information/opinion is based on old data... and PFalcon, your information is speculation based on the wide assortment of individual varying-amounts-of-buffs-and-gear parses.
Last edited by Durango; 04-14-2012 at 03:15 AM.
#show fierce strike
cast diversion strike
cast slashing strike
cast backhanded blow
cast fierce strike
cast flesh rip
#show feral sweep
cast primal rage
cast feral sweep
Buildx3, Fight as One when it comes up
Buildx3, That finisher otherwise.
To be honest I have no idea about maximizing beastmaster.