AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[batou079]

What Atrius said in the post you are referring to in no way states that he isn't contemplating an across the board increase to warrior dps. He does say through his testing that there are builds that are performing comparably with mages/rogues, but maybe not quite where he'd like them.

As many people, and strangely enough PFalcon, have pointed out that the gap might be larger than Atrius was seeing. Don't get me wrong - I'm not overly optimistic that the buffs are coming. Just don't throw the towel in yet. Wait and see what happens.

ummm, no. He blatantly said he is going to balance out our builds then bring them all up in tandem to other callings DPS.

Yes, you will now be behind Rogues and Mages. I am aware of this. It is intended for this stage in PTS testing. The next stage after this will be to do a bump us up back to where they are.

[PFalcon]

No reason to believe the warrior bump won't happen unless, again, we have people trying to brag about personal communication with this dev. Wouldn't be the first time.

Almost all our specs are within 100 dps of 3000 in relic T2.
The specs approach or are at 3400 in relic T3.

When Atrius first said, "Oh I'll just bump them all up once they're even," I was skeptical that you can even do that as easily as it was said. Maybe just a tweak to the melee damage ability nodes found in all dps roles.

I was concerned the global bump would blow our AOE DPS up, because I was under the assumption that other classes were doing 6000 at the dummies while we were already at 7000 with the champ changes. Since that is not the case and we're not top AOEDPS, the bump should be ready.

People just freaking out at the WARNED absence of posts. Just settle down.

[PFalcon]

3 AP is indeed worth about 5 crit in 1.8 in case anyone missed it. At least on a champion, and the champion spec is one most-dependent on stat crit. Specs like paragon, with more native crit, may have even higher values of AP.

No need to try extremely hard to get to the soft crit cap. Dunno how At did it, really.

[Kaybriar]

Which is exactly what we have now...

Except that all but 1 of the specs are useless on fights that require both ST and AoE damage from the dps. Hence why 51/9/6 will reign supreme. Hence why we only have an illusion of variety as long as our ST and AoE are inferior to other classes.

And if a fight requires only ST damage or only AoE damage, you just wouldn't really need to bring a warrior at all for progression.

[PFalcon]

Of course you bring a warrior. This game has a final trump, in that plate and 2-h weapons are a waste on any other player, and 10 rogues are about 70% harder to gear than 5 rogues and 5 warriors.

Drop the complaints about champ's AOE superiority already, dual wielders. No one is going to say you can't take any one of these 4 raid specs to raid in, and warrior is in zero danger of being dropped in ID progression. Any fight with a disconnect doesn't have a 51/9/6 in it. Stop forgetting that, and always remembering if it has an add in it. It's hypocritical and we've already had this discussion several times.

If it is, you don't even want to bother with the kinds of players who do that.

[Kaybriar]

Of course you bring a warrior. This game has a final trump, in that plate and 2-h weapons are a waste, and 10 rogues are aboyt 70% harder to gear than 5 rogues and 5 warriors.

Drop the complaints about champ's AOE superiority already, dual wielders. No one is going to say you can't take any one of these 4 raid specs to raid in, and warrior is in zero danger of being dropped in ID progression. Any fight with a disconnect doesn't have a 51/9/6 in it. Stop forgetting that, and always remembering if it has an add in it. It's hypocritical and we've already had this discussion several times.

If it is, you don't even want to bother with the kinds of players who do that.

I agree with you, and I am definitely QQ'ing more than I mean to. I just really hope people aren't surprised when this magical bump doesn't happen, and we are left with less variety and more mediocrity than any other class in Rift.

[PFalcon]

I agree with you, and I am definitely QQ'ing more than I mean to. I just really hope people aren't surprised when this magical bump doesn't happen, and we are left with less variety and more mediocrity than any other class in Rift.

At wouldn't go through all this insane trouble, as evidenced by getting more things right than has ever been gotten in warriors to date, only to quit right before they're finally one of the most solidly designed warrior dps's in any MMO.

You don't do all this, then say op well lolz u suck im done.

[batou079]

At wouldn't go through all this insane trouble, as evidenced by getting more things right than has ever been gotten in warriors to date, only to quit right before they're finally one of the most solidly designed warrior dps's in any MMO.

You don't do all this, then say op well lolz u suck im done.

And now for something completley different. His name is ATRIUS. lol 4 extra letters, come on now.

yes, im nitpicking :P cause im bored with this new debate. lol

[PFalcon]

Will refer to this dev as as He if he pulls off the warrior AP changes, balances a new tier of progression, brings 3 more viable raid dps specs to relevancy, and has them all parsing with the other classes...in the same decimal place.

[Steelwind]

ummm, no. He blatantly said he is going to balance out our builds then bring them all up in tandem to other callings DPS.

"The problem in doing that however is that this build was doing in some cases, 500-600 DPS more than other specs out there. When we started looking for ways to boost other specs up to reduce this incredibly large gap we discovered that we would either need to focus in areas that this spec did not touch, which meant very high end Paragon and Champion, or it meant we had to reduce the power of this spec to be closer to the other builds and then build all of them up together. So we identified unique aspects of this spec that were bloating it's numbers and we reduced the effectiveness of those features in a way that did not impact other specs that were already underperforming. By bringing it down to the levels of other specs, it allowed us to then bring all of them up to where it was before. The end result being that it is still doing the same damage it was before, but now other specs are also coming in at that same level, leaving players with more options." -Atrius

"The end goal is to get the DPS of the Warriors to be on par with the Rogues. Unfortunately with the foundations we had, we could not increase damage like that without creating specs that went far beyond the numbers we were trying to attain. These nerfs you have been seeing are shaving off the little bits of overpowered here and there to get us to a point where we can increase everyone to the place where competing with Rogues is common among several builds instead of having everyone playing one build." -Atrius

"Hello everyone, I just finished another round of changes. I am hoping this change gets things back on track to narrowing the equality of the DPS souls so I can look at some across the board DPS buffs because I think right now that my target is a tad low. To explain what I mean, there are currently a couple of builds that are coming out ahead of the others, so once again I am pulling those back in hopes of doing an across the board push upwards without making those particular builds a problem. So the changes you should see very soon are listed below." -Atrius

"Yes, you will now be behind Rogues and Mages. I am aware of this. It is intended for this stage in PTS testing. The next stage after this will be to do a bump us up back to where they are." -Atrius

"I will continue working on Bugs that are current and that crop up. As for continuing on damage comparability, I am seeing several builds right now that are within 100 DPS of each other that are comparable with Rogues and Mages though maybe not exactly where I want them to be yet. If you are still seeing issues please post them and I will address them as I continue working on Warriors for 1.8." -Atrius

"A couple of further changes.

1) Destroyer's Bearing once again can trigger off Elemental Finishers, however only at 25% chance.

2) Destroyer's Bearing now gives a further bonus to the damage of Physical Finishers.

This is an effort to pull 2H DPS up slightly." -Atrius

"As long as there remain builds that are achieving too high a value, I cannot do an across the board buff. The buffs I just made to high Champ should give two more viable builds. I will continue to buff and nerf in various places trying to get the stated goal at the beginning of 1.8 where I would like to see you all with several (Preferably 4 or more) builds that are within a reasonable margin of DPS, all within a comparable range to Rogues and Mages." -Atrius

This is a timeline from earlier to latest whenever Atrius mentioned a "bump" to all Warrior builds. As you can see, Atrius has stalled in his attempt to raise all Warrior dps. Instead, he made modifications to Destroyer's Bearing bonus and its ap proc. I believe he is done.

[Itseotle]

Is our tanking still ahead?

For now but clerics just got some big buffs, bringing them very close in certain situations, and eve farhter aheead in some. Im not very good with numbers, but you can read the info for yourself. From cleric forums ( original post here )

A Warrior in Infernal Dawn gear has a 72.71% reduction from Armor. A Cleric in Infernal Dawn gear has a 75.53% reduction from Armor. (EDIT: FYI, those values are after taking into account the reduction in effective Armor due to the level difference between you and the monster.) The Armor reduction is multiplicative with the Block Reduction as it happens earlier in the damage calculation. The Justicar also has a higher Block Reduction, even with the caps fixed.

In equivalent Infernal Dawn gear:

• On a normal Physical hit, a Justicar takes >5% more damage than the Warrior.
• On a Blocked Physical hit, a Justicar takes <2% more damage than the Warrior.
• On a normal non-Physical hit, a Justicar takes <3% more damage than the Warrior.
• On a Blocked non-Physical hit, a Justicar takes <1% less damage than the Warrior.

As a tradeoff, the Justicar has a lower average DPS taken due to their superior avoidance (<5% better than the Warrior's), but 4% less health. That's completely ignoring HPS offerings, off-tanking advantages, or DPS differences in either party's favor.

EDIT: He is comparing to the warrior 38 reaver build in these comparisons.

[PFalcon]

I will continue to buff and nerf in various places trying to get the stated goal at the beginning of 1.8 where I would like to see you all with several (Preferably 4 or more) builds that are within a reasonable margin of DPS, all within a comparable range to Rogues and Mages." -Atrius

Annnd you believe he is done because...why? You're reading too much into the words. He's saying it very bluntly that he wants 4 specs with the same dps, all comparable to rogues and mages.

You all are freaking out over nothing. If we're behind rogues and mages, he's not done. He just said he wasn't in your timeline, directly. Whether the bump does, or doesn't, happen doesn't matter whether you read into it that it will or won't happen.

He said he wasn't done if warriors aren't equal dps to mages and rogues. So is he done or not done?

[Olvi]

EDIT: He is comparing to the warrior 38 reaver build in these comparisons.

Kinda defeats the purpose of having multiple tanking souls if only one combination is going to be viable compared to other callings. Especially now that synergy between tank and DPS souls is being neutered.

[Zahne]

Zahne: I wouldn't exactly call an average 200-300dps increase in ST a nerf.

ST I'm not very worried, I think it's more the AE damage that has me concerned. As I said earlier, please correct me if I'm wrong. I've been watching the notes looking for this "bump" that was promised and I haven't seen it.

[batou079]

This is a timeline from earlier to latest whenever Atrius mentioned a "bump" to all Warrior builds. As you can see, Atrius has stalled in his attempt to raise all Warrior dps. Instead, he made modifications to Destroyer's Bearing bonus and its ap proc. I believe he is done.

Destroyers affects only one soul, and in turn a couple of builds based on that 51 pt soul.
I would be very surprised if Atrius was completely done with balance.

Although, if the estimates are correct and the patch drops next wednesday, we may simply be out of time for any more changes. unless of course they release another last minute change with the the patch, hehe