AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Phillthy]

Atrius already said he won't do a bump up despite promising us he would once no specs were OP. Oh well. At least he is reading and it isn't too late to change his mind.

No he said as long as one build was out performing the rest by so much he couldn't do the bump. And as long as some mystery specs can abuse the bursts. Not sure if this is been totally deigned fixed at this point, so no bump yet.

Don't get me wrong, I gave up hoping we will get what was promised a long long time ago, but at least with this point there has not been a confirmation that he is happy with where things are.

[batou079]

I parsed in full ID gear with (almost) full raid buffs and was just over 9k over 5 minutes on the 3 target dummies. Thinking this was pretty good, I then looked at my mage and rogue friend who I was parsing against. Stormcaller did 10.2k and Sabo did 10k (with putting up armor debuff).

So yes I am ok with being 3rd to 4th in AoE dps I guess...

Along with 3rd in ST dps.

Is our tanking still ahead?

1.8 seems like it will bring us to the back of the line in most things, rather than bringing us IN line.

And here i was worried other classes would cry to high heaven about our AoE DPS.
No worries there! And still being behind other classes for ST dps, i really hope this will mean less trolling. lol

[intrinsc]

No he said as long as one build was out performing the rest by so much he couldn't do the bump. And as long as some mystery specs can abuse the bursts. Not sure if this is been totally deigned fixed at this point, so no bump yet.

Don't get me wrong, I gave up hoping we will get what was promised a long long time ago, but at least with this point there has not been a confirmation that he is happy with where things are.

Do you really want me to go through his post history, dude? I was the freaking person that asked him, after noticing all builds were coming in line with one another, noting exactly what you said.

[Sebb]

I have to admit, I'm not seeing numbers that make me feel like I'm going to be competitive on the parse. I've also been waiting to see this "bumnp" Atrius mentioned but I haven't seen it.

Unless of course I'm missing something.

Did someone share raid buffed parses from the past week that I missed?

[intrinsc]

Zahne: I wouldn't exactly call an average 200-300dps increase in ST a nerf.

[Kaybriar]

Do you really want me to go through his post history, dude? I was the freaking person that asked him, after noticing all builds were coming in line with one another, noting exactly what you said.

Yes but how could he honestly justify leaving us like this? Our only current upside is that we can do both good AoE and good ST in 1 spec. But that in of itself just severly limits the amount of specs we can take to raids, which defeats his whole purpose of giving us more variety in our specs...

[Kealdvin]

Do you really want me to go through his post history, dude? I was the freaking person that asked him, after noticing all builds were coming in line with one another, noting exactly what you said.

I will continue working on Bugs that are current and that crop up. As for continuing on damage comparability, I am seeing several builds right now that are within 100 DPS of each other that are comparable with Rogues and Mages though maybe not exactly where I want them to be yet. If you are still seeing issues please post them and I will address them as I continue working on Warriors for 1.8.

What Atrius said in the post you are referring to in no way states that he isn't contemplating an across the board increase to warrior dps. He does say through his testing that there are builds that are performing comparably with mages/rogues, but maybe not quite where he'd like them.

As many people, and strangely enough PFalcon, have pointed out that the gap might be larger than Atrius was seeing. Don't get me wrong - I'm not overly optimistic that the buffs are coming. Just don't throw the towel in yet. Wait and see what happens.

[Sebb]

Yes but how could he honestly justify leaving us like this? Our only current upside is that we can do both good AoE and good ST in 1 spec. But that in of itself just severly limits the amount of specs we can take to raids, which defeats his whole purpose of giving us more variety in our specs...

I'm a bit confused..what's with the falling sky?

[Blackblade]

The irony of this is that all the warriors were to busy fighting over DW vs 2H when the real test was Warrior vs Other Classes.

How much time was wasted over that worthless debate...

[Kaybriar]

I'm a bit confused..what's with the falling sky?

I am a bit confused...wasn't the whole point of all of this to give us more variety?

[Kealdvin]

I'm a bit confused..what's with the falling sky?

I'd think he's more of a realist than being a "Chicken Little". He's quite right.

Spec-wise we're in a much better place than we have been in for a long time. The crux of the issue keeps coming from the question - "What makes me want to bring a warrior to the raid?"

Currently we underperform against most others in competitive dps (AoE and ST), and tanking across all souls is getting a lot more balanced (finally). So now were not actively sought after as tanks, and our dps is sub par and one dimensional. We have no viable ranged spec, we have a lackluster "support" spec, and our tanks are equivalent (roughly) to all others.

I'm not asking, or expecting, warriors to be top dps. I just think that equality should actually be, well, equal. As it stands that is not the case and I'll agree with Kaybriar that it should be looked at.

[Pines]

I'd think he's more of a realist than being a "Chicken Little". He's quite right.

Spec-wise we're in a much better place than we have been in for a long time. The crux of the issue keeps coming from the question - "What makes me want to bring a warrior to the raid?"

Currently we underperform against most others in competitive dps (AoE and ST), and tanking across all souls is getting a lot more balanced (finally). So now were not actively sought after as tanks, and our dps is sub par and one dimensional. We have no viable ranged spec, we have a lackluster "support" spec, and our tanks are equivalent (roughly) to all others.

I'm not asking, or expecting, warriors to be top dps. I just think that equality should actually be, well, equal. As it stands that is not the case and I'll agree with Kaybriar that it should be looked at.

I've never said or thought this until the last few days, but I'm starting to regret my class choice.

[Shakaale]

The irony of this is that all the warriors were to busy fighting over DW vs 2H when the real test was Warrior vs Other Classes.

How much time was wasted over that worthless debate...

Nope, this was the real debate. 2H vs DW.
Because the goal was to first balance every build so that they all parse about the same ( at least on dummy ) while having their own strengths that won't be evaluated before 1.8 is live and people start raiding.
Since we got souls relying heavily on 2H and builds relying heavily on DW, 2H vs DW was an appropriate discussion.

Atrius stated he would then push every buttons up so that the parsed numbers would be equivalent to other classes. While this happening is now questionned, I still keep faith it will be done.

So in the end, the whole Class vs Class question was only second to adjusting the inner Warrior calling mechanisms.

[mattya802]

I am a bit confused...wasn't the whole point of all of this to give us more variety?

Which is exactly what we have now...

[Sebb]

Currently we underperform against most others in competitive dps (AoE and ST), and tanking across all souls is getting a lot more balanced (finally). So now were not actively sought after as tanks, and our dps is sub par and one dimensional. We have no viable ranged spec, we have a lackluster "support" spec, and our tanks are equivalent (roughly) to all others.

I can agree with the issue that warriors bring similar dps, now similar tanking, but now are half as versatile as everyone else. This is a huge issue, one that I've really just gotten worn down on debating on the boards anymore. I hope it gets resolved, because I love healing on my cleric. I love switching from aoe dps to ST dps to support heals to full heals from fight to fight. I wish I had half those options on my warrior. That topic is for another thread though.

People are acting as if warriors are 10% behind all other classes in dps, and nobody has shown evidence to that.