AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Sebb]

Just to get back to build theory... Has 51 champ, 15 Paragon been tested much?

i feel like 5pt weapon master proccs, would allow for finishers at every 1-2 GCDs.
If you procc enough along with destroyers, you could essentially spam physical finishers EVERY single 1 GCD.

Would that not be enough DPS to make up for oGCDs of RB, or to make up for the bonus dps from Fierce?
Admittedly, you would essentially have ZERO useful synergy crystals. (i am a little dissappointed how limiting our crystals remain) I would test this myself, but havent been on much lately.

It doesn't work out. You need to use 2 attack point builders to get WM (builder + Follow up). You have 3 all the time without WM. Unless you were using Slayers instead of Destroyers. Then you might as well drop down to 38 champ. I briefly played with 38ch/28para, but it seemed a dismal failure.

Disruptive -> Finisher
PS/RW ->Finisher
PS/RW ->Finisher

[Salvas]

Just to get back to build theory... Has 51 champ, 15 Paragon been tested much?

i feel like 5pt weapon master proccs, would allow for finishers at every 1-2 GCDs.
If you procc enough along with destroyers, you could essentially spam physical finishers EVERY single 1 GCD.

Would that not be enough DPS to make up for oGCDs of RB, or to make up for the bonus dps from Fierce?
Admittedly, you would essentially have ZERO useful synergy crystals. (i am a little dissappointed how limiting our crystals remain) I would test this myself, but havent been on much lately.

With "lately" I assume you mean for a very long time since WM was changed quite a while ago now on PTS and you wont be able to get any WM procs from 1 builder. If you use Destroyers you get no use out of WM.

[Dire]

You consider having Blade Fury and Cornered Beast as part of our top single target rotation a good spot?

I think most people consider the fact that we have at least 5 viable specs (some 2h, some dw) parsing within 50 dps of each other (if not less) a very very good spot. Using AoE abilities in a ST rotation is nothing new or unusual - happens with every class in every MMO - and I fail to see how trying to resolve this non-issue warrants another nerfing mess so close to the patch going life.

[Undrsiege]

Specs that have all parsed within 5% of each other:

51para/15rb
44para/22ch
38para/22ch/6rb
51champ/2bm/13rb
51champ/9para/6rb
51champ/15rb
51rb/15para
40champ/26bm
43rb/23ch

Complaining at this point is down to nitpicking. Things like Moving Swift blades to a 24 second cool down instead of 25. Improving Diversion Strike to boost higher BM builds.

I agree, with all of them so close it makes balancing PvP super easy..

[intrinsc]

I fail to see either of those in Paper's 51CH parse.

He is using the 13/2 not 9/6.

[Wylt]

He is using the 13/2

Correct. The "Blade Crack" spec.

[paper]

It's not perfect. It my DW parse GI took over a minute to build to 5 stacks, then proceeded to fall off, while I had 100% uptime in the two hand parse, but they are still pretty damn close.

[Soulsurfing]

Sure 51 Champ being viable is nice and everything, but wasn't one of the main goals with these class changes to separate our ST and AOE?

Honestly feels like we've gone in a massive circle here. Anyone else notice a pattern in the viable 1.8 specs? They all have Frenzied Strike.

Frenzied Strike is the only thing keeping other 51 specs from being viable. Why not nerf it like FB and SLI and see where that puts us?

That was jealous other classes saying we need to be limited just because they are. These same classes also get stuff we dont like range, heals, invisibility.. Give me those and you can make warrior dps limited. Until then they are jealous trolls who cant see their own advantages.

[Soulsurfing]

Specs that have all parsed within 5% of each other:

51para/15rb
44para/22ch
38para/22ch/6rb
51champ/2bm/13rb
51champ/9para/6rb
51champ/15rb
51rb/15para
40champ/26bm
43rb/23ch

Complaining at this point is down to nitpicking. Things like Moving Swift blades to a 24 second cool down instead of 25. Improving Diversion Strike to boost higher BM builds.

Trying to catch up on 80 pages of data... Doing this on smartphone is a pain, so apologies..

Ive seen comments 51/13/2bm was nerfed, then i see contradictory posts of people saying they'll still use it?

And how does 51/9/6 stack up to the 2h 51/13/2bm build in pajacs post? I saw a 3170 (9/6) vs 3152.. If that isnt just crit rng or lost gcds... 9/6 may be better... Doing this on smartphone so hard to keep track of everything.. Will try to do my own testing soon

It comes down to what is the top parsing build? It seems like 51c/9para/6rb 2h may be it now?

Thanks to everyone who is posting
Also thanks to pajac for trying to keep equipment baselined for comparison of 2h and dw builds..

[PFalcon]

That was jealous other classes saying we need to be limited just because they are. These same classes also get stuff we dont like range, heals, invisibility.. Give me those and you can make warrior dps limited. Until then they are jealous trolls who cant see their own advantages.

Dual wielding fans did most of the talking, sadly. The bulk of that argument came from within the class, and not from wandering rogues.

Whoever said champion is the new crutch is right.
Frenzied strike
Passive damage boosts

But...it's a lot better than it used to be, and at least champion is no longer just a buffet platter for other specs. Nor is paragon. Nor is token RB. And BM is relevant again. As is a raiding RB.

Good time to be a warrior, and At has ended up looking like the best class dev by a standard deviation.

[Undrsiege]

Dual wielding fans did most of the talking, sadly. The bulk of that argument came from within the class, and not from wandering rogues.

Whoever said champion is the new crutch is right.
Frenzied strike
Passive damage boosts

But...it's a lot better than it used to be, and at least champion is no longer just a buffet platter for other specs. Nor is paragon. Nor is token RB. And BM is relevant again. As is a raiding RB.

Good time to be a warrior, and At has ended up looking like the best class dev by a standard deviation.

You will hate him before it is all over :P.

[PFalcon]

No idea why some are still focussing on 13/2. I think they like the theorycrafted cheese of BM-but-not-a-BM bits in it. The synergy crystal is a soul killer in raid though. No way am I going to use a role slot, with all these good specs, for a 51/13/2.

We don't necessarily have to know which does top STDPS. It's probably irrelevant and we'll have to see how they do in raid setting. These are all so similar that it doesn't really matter which one is top on dummy now.

[Kaybriar]

I agree we are in an extremely good spot as far as multiple competitive builds (nice job Atrius). I don't have the parses to prove it (wasn't using ACT on the PTS just simplemeter), but I parsed between 4400-4700 with multiple specs raid buffed with full ID gear on the PTS a couple nights ago.

The specs I tested were: 51/13/2, 51/9/6, 43/23, 38/22/6(dw). They were all within 5% dps of each other which is fantastic, because now we can utilize specs that give us the best options on a per fight basis in ID (mobility vs. range vs. aoe etc).

The only downside I think currently, is that mages are still about 300-400 ahead of us ST with their best spec. The mage who I parsed against was consistently doing 4800-5100 with defilemancer with equal gear and slightly less PAs.

So overall we have more specs that are competitive than we have ever had before, we just need probably a very slight bump in ST dps (maybe increase AP contribution slightly), to make things perfect.

[paper]

Trying to catch up on 80 pages of data... Doing this on smartphone is a pain, so apologies..

Ive seen comments 51/13/2bm was nerfed, then i see contradictory posts of people saying they'll still use it?

And how does 51/9/6 stack up to the 2h 51/13/2bm build in pajacs post? I saw a 3170 (9/6) vs 3152.. If that isnt just crit rng or lost gcds... 9/6 may be better... Doing this on smartphone so hard to keep track of everything.. Will try to do my own testing soon

It comes down to what is the top parsing build? It seems like 51c/9para/6rb 2h may be it now?

Thanks to everyone who is posting
Also thanks to pajac for trying to keep equipment baselined for comparison of 2h and dw builds..

9/6 was posted with a 60% crit rate.

[batou079]

With "lately" I assume you mean for a very long time since WM was changed quite a while ago now on PTS and you wont be able to get any WM procs from 1 builder. If you use Destroyers you get no use out of WM.

No, basically i exaggerated. It would take 2 GCDs minimum no matter what, not 1.

Basically im talking about the difference between the AP gains from 1x finisher + 2x Builders versus 1x finisher + 1x Builder @ a 50% chance. Being able to use finishers 1.5 faster than non WM builds at 50% of the time i would THINK would be a noticeable boost to the rotation DPS.

Assuming Punishing Blow spamming is enough to make up for the loss of burst finishers, FB ticks and TS ticks.
I simply never caught any posted parses for this build specifically, and i really REALLY don't want to still have to rely on BURST finishers. >_<"