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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    I have major doubts about these changes. You cannot have every spec be as good as every other spec. Trying to balance a class to this goal is unrealistic and will result in a gross oversimplification of play style.

    A mage or cleric have best specs. So do rogues. Everyone wants to get rid of RW or Fiery burst for what? You will still have a certain rotation of abilities that will be top dps. So the rational behind the changes seems flawed.
    Also if you look at bladedancer for rogue and nightblade those two specs come close to bloodstalker.. mayeb within 100-300 dps of each other. If warriors have builds like that it could overall benefit the raid.. and more so the warrior class in general in raids.. Say for example RB was made a viable spec.. not top dps, but within 100-200 dps.. That means we as warriors could have an improved frost armor in raids which in turn boosts warriors dps even further.. and the one runing the spec doesn't have too much to complain about cause he isn't 600 dps behind. BM can offer the 7% buff which is nice.. So if we had those two specs within 100-300 dps of the top dps spec.. warrior dps in any spec will gain dps.. if they use fiery burst of course for the increase fire damage.. That kinda synergy among the warriors in raids would be ideal.
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  2. #347
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    PTS has been updated guys, check out the notes here!

  3. #348
    RIFT Guide Writer Sekhmet The Fierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    PTS has been updated guys, check out the notes here!
    !!!!!

    Going in 5.... 4....
    "Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."
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  4. #349
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    One thing I'd like to quickly comment on is that I don't see Building Fury anywhere, though it does seem like it is affecting my finishers. Would be nice to know the numbers from it however.

  5. #350
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    So I'm guessing the Champ 4pc is going to be pretty terrible now? It's being nerfed to 20% and we're gaining a boost to our already huge damage modifiers, which nerfs it again.

    You guys should see how much of a boost it actually is and if MB is even doing more dmg then PS now.
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  6. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    One thing I'd like to quickly comment on is that I don't see Building Fury anywhere, though it does seem like it is affecting my finishers. Would be nice to know the numbers from it however.
    Nevermind, once I did a respec and put points into a soul it showed up in the abilities pane for that soul. It makes finishers get 100% AP contribution per point spent, so a 3 point finisher has 300% contribution.

  7. #352
    Shield of Telara Kaybriar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattya802 View Post
    So I'm guessing the Champ 4pc is going to be pretty terrible now? It's being nerfed to 20% and we're gaining a boost to our already huge damage modifiers, which nerfs it again.

    You guys should see how much of a boost it actually is and if MB is even doing more dmg then PS now.
    At first glance, power strike was hitting significantly harder than MB with the champ crystal
    Kaybye ~

  8. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattya802 View Post
    So I'm guessing the Champ 4pc is going to be pretty terrible now? It's being nerfed to 20% and we're gaining a boost to our already huge damage modifiers, which nerfs it again.

    You guys should see how much of a boost it actually is and if MB is even doing more dmg then PS now.
    My Power Strike is definitely hitting harder than my MB. Not by a whole lot, but harder.

  9. #354
    Shield of Telara Kaybriar's Avatar
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    Punishing blow was hitting like a truck too in 51 ch.
    Kaybye ~

  10. #355
    Rift Chaser psionicalpha's Avatar
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    Is there any hope of BM getting a Rift fury like scaling ability? Otherwise it seems like spending points in that tree will always keep it sub-par as you end up losing out on the scaling abilities that the other 3 have.
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  11. #356
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    Can't wait to start seeing some parse numbers. My guess is initially 51ch is tops.
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  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaybriar View Post
    Punishing blow was hitting like a truck too in 51 ch.
    How much ap do you have

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    How much ap do you have
    Like 1030 unbuffed
    Kaybye ~

  14. #359
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    First numbers and comments based on my gear/weaponry/etc:

    RW 2h Spec: 838 AP, 1055 crit
    Using Vanguard's Battleaxe, t1 champ 2 piece only

    (with 3p SLI up)
    Crit RW = 2506
    Crit PS = 3000
    Crit MB = 2466

    So basically, the only reason to use RW atm if you have 2h is for energy conservation. It's less damage and more rotation work. Not sure this is right atm. Without a bard/chloro around I couldn't test the PS x 3, FB, PS x 3...etc rotation sustainably, but it seemed to be around 2200-2300 with my gear as long as you're not energy starved.

    44 paragon/20 champ/2rb Spec: 869 AP / 1026 crit
    Using Vanguard's Longsword + Soulfury, t1 raid paragon 2 piece only, and WOTM

    (with 3pt SLI up)
    Crit Paired Strike = 3572
    Crit POTW = 1590
    Crit Dual Strike = 2254

    Crit RW = 3271
    Crit POTH = 2471
    Crit POTR = 2421

    Considering that you can force crit about 60% of the RWs....this is exceptionally powerful. I was at 2400 or so over 2 minutes, self buffs only, no whetstones, no energy cost reductions. However I quite approve that it's more than both the ranged followups - so if you melee you get more, if you have to disconnect it's a drop.

    EDIT: my PAs are 26 sword, 24 axe, 24 2h.
    Last edited by wraithh; 02-20-2012 at 05:27 PM.

  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    This is a reply to address a few different worries.

    First let me address Rising Waterfall specs. Once again I will state that we do not intend to ruin this spec, the intention is to have multiple builds that can match the glory and power that this build was achieving.

    The problem in doing that however is that this build was doing in some cases, 500-600 DPS more than other specs out there. When we started looking for ways to boost other specs up to reduce this incredibly large gap we discovered that we would either need to focus in areas that this spec did not touch, which meant very high end Paragon and Champion, or it meant we had to reduce the power of this spec to be closer to the other builds and then build all of them up together. So we identified unique aspects of this spec that were bloating it's numbers and we reduced the effectiveness of those features in a way that did not impact other specs that were already underperforming. By bringing it down to the levels of other specs, it allowed us to then bring all of them up to where it was before. The end result being that it is still doing the same damage it was before, but now other specs are also coming in at that same level, leaving players with more options.

    Now as I mentioned before, these first run of numbers are rough, so you may notice other builds now doing better in some circumstances or worse. As soon as we get these up on PTS, please play with them, test your numbers and see what's what. if RW is just not comparable to where it used to be, then please report that and we will address it.

    Second, let's talk about items. We intend Warriors to be getting 2 handers, and 1 handed weapons based on their preference. So do not feel bad about rolling on a 1 hand sword in a raid or a dungeon, you should be rolling on them, it was only our balance issues that were making Dual Wield not viable and so you were not trying to get these items. Now daggers on the other hand, you should not be rolling on. We intentionally did not give you PA specs for them to help make it clear that Daggers are intended for Rogues to play with. if you find yourselves wanting to roll on Daggers, please mention it, we should look into that.

    Third, I want to address the continued concerns about Fiery Burst. We did a balance pass on the damage done by just about every Warrior ability and the Bursts were probably the largest changes. The first thing that happened is that they now have appropriate AP scaling, the second thing that changed is that previously they did not gain increased Weapon Damage modification and now they gain Attack Power Modification, and the third thing that changed is that their damage value was reduced based on the fact that they are off the Global Cooldown. Once again these numbers are rough and so you may find that the changes are too much, or maybe not enough. The end result though should now be that you are not pigeonholed into using the Bursts, you should be using them because you want to, not because you have to.
    Atrius a couple things I would like to look at:

    Firstly, certain skills only effecting a certain damage type (deadly strikes) eliminates a low level synergy for rb, and might hold that soul back.

    Secondly, our passive damage mods are getting ridiculous. Its getting to a point that it gets too expensive on the damage end to spend any points in a nondamage soul to keep up our damage, but our damage souls have no defensive abilities. With current changes, to be able to spend 12 points in a tank soul for the defense in pvp costs me 36% damage mod, no other class in the game has such extreme damage loss for taking points in a utility/defensive soul. Lowering the damage mods for points in souls and raising the one time investment abilities would help alieviate this some. Another route would to be to go the rs route and add damage/utility/other options to the tank souls to allow us to pick up some much needed defense in pvp. Also our dps souls are still in need of cds to be able to use at proper times to make us a little more... skillful is the word I guess.

    Thirdly, is blinding fury purgable? if so our entire class would once again be at the mercy of mms and eradicate. Why eradicate does not have a short cd yet is anyones best guess, but if blinding is purgeable (which it should be normally, but eradicate changes this) one mm could completely gimp us again.

    Finally, the buff to RS is mildly concerning, as it has the very real potential to put them above 38 reaver in mitigation (they were only ~2% behind in average mitigation in the first place, and with the new teir they were likely to catch up or surpass us anyways (deflect)) with better cds. This wouldnt be much a problem if Trion wasnt balancing tanks around 90+% mitigation, but since thats where we are at, even a 1% mitigation difference could result in 1000s of extra damage taken.

    ps. One last thing I will add is that SLI needs to die a horrible death. Please consider drastically lowering the skills damage bonus and spreading it to other points in the soul.
    Last edited by jerwel; 02-20-2012 at 05:32 PM.

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