AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[gfiz]

did Atrius see his shadow or something last time he posted?

[Sebb]

So after some extensive testing with full t3Pa and full ID Test gear, here are my thoughts about the current PTS changes:

All test was done with full self buff only no bard/archon:

Keep 51cha/15rb as it is with DB only working on physical (yes I really mean this)
The AOE in this spec is a beast doing ~7.7k on 3 targets, while only doing ~3k ST.
All good for an aoe spec.

Trim off 44para/20cha/2rb dw abit, atm its st dps is ~3.7k can be lowered by 100-200
Can be done by nerfing deadly grace abit.

Boost 41rb/21cha/2rvr, dps is at ~3.4k
Give it 100-200dps more making it a viable 2h st dps spec
Can be done by lowering cd of frost strike to 4sec while boosting elemental touch by a marginal
Frost strike -> thunder strike abit bugged, bonus doesn't apply to secondary hits of the thunder strike but applies to first hit.
Decent aoe on ~5.7k on 3 targets

BM is looking good tested a 39cha/21bm/6rb, ignored the extra ap from DS. Used FB and TS as finishers, dps ~3.4k fine for a support spec.
Around ~5.5k on 3 targets using BF, Titan and fb as finishers with bm crystal, also fine for a support spec.


Sadly dont have the parses for these.

Which dummies were you testing AOE on? I was having issues making sure that I connected with all three when using the higher tier ones. The low tier ones had too little HP to test on.

Also, don't parse in ID gear, then rogues see it and report on their forums that OMG WARRIORS ARE OP!!!!!!

[Undrsiege]

Real BM specs are.

Negative, I saw storytime parse high bm raid buffed 4400+.. On 3/21 after bm nerfs.

[Sebb]

Negative, I saw storytime parse high bm raid buffed 4400+..

Interesting. I couldn't get anything respectable out of a 51 BM rotation. The raid based rotation is probably different though if you have other bleed sources and don't have to keep up FR and FS.

[LocoOne]

Which dummies were you testing AOE on? I was having issues making sure that I connected with all three when using the higher tier ones. The low tier ones had too little HP to test on.

Also, don't parse in ID gear, then rogues see it and report on their forums that OMG WARRIORS ARE OP!!!!!!

Tested on boss dummies and on the 3 elite aoe dummies.

Dont post in ID gear, dont post in live gear, i soon dont know what to do anymore, think i parse naked next time using a stick

On a more serious note the parses is made for a comparable look at the different specs, and i fully concur with what atrius has in mind: More spec for different encounters, no more 1 spec to rule them all.

[Majorin]

2h warrior is about 200-300 dps behind rogue/mage and 300-500 behind DW warrior. That means DW > mage/rogue by ~100-200.

Trust me, I'm not Durango. Oh, and I've actually tested this with full raid buffs/debuffs with normalized PAs and gear.

The goal, in my opinion, should be to drop DW down 100 dps and bump up 2h by 300 dps. ish

How does it make sense to have ranged dps equal to melee dps. It is a fundamental flaw with the overall dps goals. Melee will always have less time on the target due to mechanics. Making it so everything is equal on a practice dummy seems silly. Now raid encounter dps results should take this into account but even then it is not exact. I can give multiple examples of this... Like being assigned to interupts, moving to get adds, vs. Others who may be focusing only on dps.

[Devyl]

So Atrius, are you gonna make the warrior the NEW cleric?

Making ...
Champion the NEW Cabbalist? - top AoE
Paragon the NEW Inquisitor? - top ST
Beastmaster the NEW Druid? - pet class with less dmg?
And Riftblade bust be the NEW Shaman? - something in between

Have i missed something?

Yeah, that must be very cool, that the warrior now behaves like a cleric

This makes me very sad ...

I don't wanna be like a cleric dpser! - I wanna be a warrior! - I wanna feel different!

[MiO]

So Atrius, are you gonna make the warrior the NEW cleric?

Making ...
Champion the NEW Cabbalist? - top AoE
Paragon the NEW Inquisitor? - top ST
Beastmaster the NEW Druid? - pet class with less dmg?
And Riftblade bust be the NEW Shaman? - something in between

Have i missed something?

Yeah, that must be very cool, that the warrior now behaves like a cleric

This makes me very sad ...

I don't wanna be like a cleric dpser! - I wanna be a warrior! - I wanna feel different!

We'd need the titans strike stun back, but well played.

[paper]

Negative, I saw storytime parse high bm raid buffed 4400+.. On 3/21 after bm nerfs.

That was before the most recent set of BM nerfs, and it was with 40/26, so was actually high champion, and then the rest BM.

[Angryweasel]

That was before the most recent set of BM nerfs, and it was with 40/26, so was actually high champion, and then the rest BM.

38-22-6 beats the old 40/26 spec.

[Sebb]

That was before the most recent set of BM nerfs, and it was with 40/26, so was actually high champion, and then the rest BM.

Thanks. The only way I can see high BM working is w/ 15 champ by rotating Primal Fury, Fight as one and Tearing Slash. Letting your rogues supply most of the bleeds for Primal Fury.

[Ekso]

without changes high BM useless anyway

[Wali]

2h warrior is about 200-300 dps behind rogue/mage and 300-500 behind DW warrior. That means DW > mage/rogue by ~100-200.

Trust me, I'm not Durango. Oh, and I've actually tested this with full raid buffs/debuffs with normalized PAs and gear.

The goal, in my opinion, should be to drop DW down 100 dps and bump up 2h by 300 dps. ish

This is still the wrong goal.

I'll repeat what I have said before:

Melee dps (warrior, rogue, cleric) should always out parse ranged dps on a stationary target dummy. In an actual raid environment with raid mechanics like boss mob movement, AoE dodging, add switches, etc., melee and ranged dps should end up parsing about the same. It's unfortunate that raid mechanics in Rift are more unfriendly to melee dps than ranged dps, but that's the way things are today and the dps scaling should account for that.

When all is said and done in 1.8, warrior dps parses on the stationary dummy better outparse rogue ranged specs and mages.

[Drathek]

Thanks. The only way I can see high BM working is w/ 15 champ by rotating Primal Fury, Fight as one and Tearing Slash. Letting your rogues supply most of the bleeds for Primal Fury.

I would actually be quite interested in seeing a raid buffed parse like that. With either a second bm or some rogues supplying the rest of the bleeds and the bm mainly focusing on the three u listed, as well as slashing strike and flesh rip of course

Might need some playing with, but could have some weird results. If the bm doesn't need to use any bleeds basically because of others supplying them that would really make that rotation so much smoother (and practical). Hmm. Need to round up some guildies this weekend maybe

[batou079]

So after some extensive testing with full t3Pa and full ID Test gear, here are my thoughts about the current PTS changes:

All test was done with full self buff only no bard/archon:

Keep 51cha/15rb as it is with DB only working on physical (yes I really mean this)
The AOE in this spec is a beast doing ~7.7k on 3 targets, while only doing ~3k ST.
All good for an aoe spec.

Trim off 44para/20cha/2rb dw abit, atm its st dps is ~3.7k can be lowered by 100-200
Can be done by nerfing deadly grace abit.

Boost 41rb/21cha/2rvr, dps is at ~3.4k
Give it 100-200dps more making it a viable 2h st dps spec
Can be done by lowering cd of frost strike to 4sec while boosting elemental touch by a marginal
Frost strike -> thunder strike abit bugged, bonus doesn't apply to secondary hits of the thunder strike but applies to first hit.
Decent aoe on ~5.7k on 3 targets

BM is looking good tested a 39cha/21bm/6rb, ignored the extra ap from DS. Used FB and TS as finishers, dps ~3.4k fine for a support spec.
Around ~5.5k on 3 targets using BF, Titan and fb as finishers with bm crystal, also fine for a support spec.


Sadly dont have the parses for these.

Curious, such a huge disparity between 51 champ (2h) ST DPS and 44 para (DW) ST DPS.
I gotta be honest, that is not a good feeling. As if AoE DPS even matters, ST DPS is what every class gauges their potential by, and if our one exclusive weapon can't be competitive at that, then the excitement of getting Kracken Spines for warriors is greatly diminished.

I could care less about AoE DPS. No matter how much you tweak us, by nature we will still have good AoE. I'd rather they just keep the margin for ST DPS between 2h and DW much closer (100-200... or less).