AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Voldeth]

this is unfortunately true and I say unfortunately because before the latest changes on IB cooldown and Destroyer's functionality synergy between builds was very close to ideal - only needed a couple of tweeks with the GCD finishers' synergy to make them competitive - and we almost had a wide choice of viable 2H and DW specs.

I don't see a reason why IB had to go on a 3 sec cooldown since Destroyer's Bearing was only granting an attack point to 3-point finishers. Likewise para-rb specs couldn't abuse 1 point IBs since the whole paragon idea is to always do builder -> Follow-up and I don't know any BM or RB spec that made 1 point IB spam worth doing either power-wise or dps-wise.

Also Destroyer's changes completely destroyed 51champ synergy with all other specs.
15 points in BM is not enough to get a proper pet, proper bleeds or anything else that worth more than just an extra oGCD reactive (flesh rip)
15 points in RB give you no synergy as elemental finishers does not work with destroyers anymore resulted in the spec losing at least 200-250 dps.
15 points in paragon is a waste since using follow up attacks grants you an extra attack point, however, follow up attacks are only triggered after using a builder which automatically means u already have 3 points and getting a 4th from destroyer's proc is useless.

This is exactly what I was talking about in one of my previous posts.
Atrius needs to get out of this "if it's coming on top it must be nerfed" logic basically because whenever something is nerfed it opens the way for something else to come on top.
We've seen this happening after Champ crystal nerf, SLI nerf, Slayer's nerf, FB nerf, Destroyer's nerf, force of will nerf etc etc.. now what? nerf Paragon DW till RB 2H comes on top and then nerf that too till BM comes back on top and so on..
Atrius need to create synergy. From then on numbers will come naturally with small tweaks here and there. (if you've played the mage you must have realized that)



On a side note, I've tried 38para/23champ/5rb against 44/20/2 with raid buffs.
The 44/20/2 warrior is a very decent one with same gear as me plus the golem inductor he has.
Both builds parsed around the same with each one coming ahead of the other depending on RNG which only mean that 38 para specs scale better than 44 with raid buffs allowing you to invest those 6 points to get some extra utility. Imo just go 38-26-2 and get fair AoE.

A point of clarity: neither warrior had a GI. Vohn had very little PAs towards 1handers where as PJ had them maxxed out (in t1/t2 ONLY that is). We'll see what we can do about getting a 38/23/5 parse in unless some further changes are posted soon.

[OdinTGE]

Dont get off track this is warrior **** we are talking about and the dualwield should not be above 2handers

Now who's getting off track? A preference for 2H vs. DW is purely your opinion and has no relevance to the discussion. The goal here is for warriors to be even with other DPS classes while having more than one spec to choose from. Additional goals include having those specs be fun which it seems is not being described as 'fluid' or 'not clunky'.

[PapaDoom]

I don't see a reason why IB had to go on a 3 sec cooldown since Destroyer's Bearing was only granting an attack point to 3-point finishers. Likewise para-rb specs couldn't abuse 1 point IBs since the whole paragon idea is to always do builder -> Follow-up and I don't know any BM or RB spec that made 1 point IB spam worth doing either power-wise or dps-wise.

As Atrius said, there was a spec exploiting this. We don't know which one.

Unfortunately, all three of the highest builds shared one thing in common that was causing an issue, and that was Icy Burst. There were other ways it could potentially be used in a couple builds I did not see posted here that achieved another 400-600 above those so it had to be changed.

[XxShunsuixX]

As Atrius said, there was a spec exploiting this. We don't know which one.

lols that parse was the one in debate earleir.. they were the only ones who had it go that much higher than anyone else.. no one fomr any fo the top guilds in the world could reprodce what they did( and we had the same exact gear and rotation, so how did they parse that much higher).. plus they had t3 pa and extra non realistic damage buffs in a raid parse..(i.e 3 chloro's on one should even be using more than 1 chloro in Hk atm)

[WilkesW]

As Atrius said, there was a spec exploiting this. We don't know which one.

Was probably the 1-2 AP IB zerg spec with full power-buffs (tablet, fervor, 3/3 grim), can imagine that would reach pretty high, hence the the CD on icy burst was implemented.

[Zahne]

Ugh. I really don't want to go back to using one-handers.

[Ekso]

On a side note, I've tried 38para/23champ/5rb against 44/20/2 with raid buffs.
The 44/20/2 warrior is a very decent one with same gear as me plus the golem inductor he has.
Both builds parsed around the same with each one coming ahead of the other depending on RNG which only mean that 38 para specs scale better than 44 with raid buffs allowing you to invest those 6 points to get some extra utility. Imo just go 38-26-2 and get fair AoE.

Now change of the weapon activates GCD, Bladefury and Migty Blow have crap dmg with DW, 2H ftw and imo only 2 spec now, ST spec for ST encounters or AoE spec for AoE (51 champ ofc Cornered Beast + Destroyers Bearing >>>>> SLI + 18% crit dmg)

Further changes of BM soul are frozen? now we have only 40/26 Champ/Para with very mediocre dps ;) Whether and as there will be changes 51 roots of paragon soul? now 51 paragon build as are useless

[Ekso]

Oops 40/26 champ/bm ofc

[Wylt]

DW Paragon needs a slight nerf
Destroyer's Bearing needs to proc on elemental finishers again
Buff our AP scaling across the board to bring us back up to snuff vs other callings

...and we're done.

This gives us several viable 2h specs & several viable DW specs.

The lack of an Atrius response in 42 pages of posts is disconcerting. The lack of any updates for warriors on PTS over the last week+ is also disconcerting.

We better not go live in this horrid state.

[Angryweasel]

41/23/2 RB/champ/Reaver still scales very well with raid buffs and pulls some good numbers.

10 man PTS dummy test: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ts-parses.html

[WilkesW]

I don't fell like tanktrees should be a part of dps speccs, the tanks will strangle us for using em since bloodfever will pull pretty large threatnumbers. Intercept will become a requirement and with that warrior tanks will be a must for every fight dpsers are using those abilities, atleast that is how it feels to me. Maybe cyclonic/tempest/sweeping will still pull better threat together with healingaggro, vortex etc.

[Angryweasel]

I don't fell like tanktrees should be a part of dps speccs, the tanks will strangle us for using em since bloodfever will pull pretty large threatnumbers. Intercept will become a requirement and with that warrior tanks will be a must for every fight dpsers are using those abilities, atleast that is how it feels to me. Maybe cyclonic/tempest/sweeping will still pull better threat together with healingaggro, vortex etc.

We have tested aggro and the tanks has no problem keeping it. You only use blood fever once every 12 seconds so the extra aggro you get is quite small.

[WilkesW]

We have tested aggro and the tanks has no problem keeping it. You only use blood fever once every 12 seconds so the extra aggro you get is quite small.

Ok, then I have no issue, thanks!

[Majorin]

41/23/2 RB/champ/Reaver still scales very well with raid buffs and pulls some good numbers.

10 man PTS dummy test: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3698247

It seems like most of the parses with rogues and mages has those classes with higher dps than warriors. FYI - I completely ignore the voodoo parse because it is worthless.

Is the difference in parses due to the nerf warriors and then prop them up when we go live thing? I mean after all this work and a 300 page thread you would assume the warrior class would be better off come 1.8. Lol.

[Sebb]

A point of clarity: neither warrior had a GI. Vohn had very little PAs towards 1handers where as PJ had them maxxed out (in t1/t2 ONLY that is). We'll see what we can do about getting a 38/23/5 parse in unless some further changes are posted soon.

Awesome parses - thanks!

Whenever I tested on PTS, the GI was about a 150 dps increase. It's clearly showing that the 2h specs are way behind not only 44 para, but everything else as well.