AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Mack0603]

The DW parse was done w/ purple weapons. I have a relic 2hander. Here is a parse done with relic 1handers.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...29170486_n.jpg

2hand is around 150dps behind at the moment. I'd rather not discuss the state of beastmaster because it is just depressing.

Thanks for pointing that out

I knew the was some difference.

[PFalcon]

The DW parse was done w/ purple weapons. I have a relic 2hander. Here is a parse done with relic 1handers.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...29170486_n.jpg

2hand is around 150dps behind at the moment. I'd rather not discuss the state of beastmaster because it is just depressing.

Where's the parse of a champion who can do 3080 STDPS...
Raid buffed perhaps.

[PFalcon]

That's a bad argument to go down, or you are going to have to start arguing for bloodstalker to be the highest ST DPS in the game bar none.

Then how are you going to pay for the champion's DPS, which drops like an unprecedented ROCK when it disconnects?

More AOEDPS? The other classes will have a FIT.

[Mack0603]

Where's the parse of a champion who can do 3150 STDPS...
Raid buffed perhaps.

Same could be said for BM.

You said a "competitive 2H" spec. Not a competitive Champ spec.

I want 51 BM to work for raid utility, but we can't all have what we want.

[AlexTrickle]

Wow 270 pages and I've only joined in now..

Coming from the unique (or rare) point of view of having 4 top end geared chars (1 of every class) I am intrigued at the changes to warrior - warrior being my "2nd main" being a core raider in our 2nd team.

My thoughts on what I can see from the first 10 and last 10 pages:

- Firstly I am glad with the move to AP - was too long to get here, but as they say better late than never. Raid scaling still needs to be addressed carefully as warrior raid dps could range from **** to way op based on this.

- The discussion of champ being top AOE and ST. I understand the argument presented by those who wish this to be the case but having played all four classes - none of them have this. Cab and Sabo absolutely blow in ST, SC fairs a bit better but is still a good 15-20% behind - so from the point of view of equality of classes then the top AOE spec should NOT be top ST as well - competent fine, but not top. If anything it shows an active/thoughtful raider who puts in effort changing spec according to encounter/trash as opposed to rolling through the entire thing in the same one role.

- DW and 2H being equal? This I do agree with however it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Trion to balance them perfectly. A difference of around 100dps would be fine as this can be overwritten by player skill for the majority of people and so would still present warriors with two viable options on which they can choose their preferred play style.

- BM? Beastmaster has always been the ugly soul in the warrior calling which has to some degree been like that of the bard or archon - people being forced to play it. Pets in Rift unfortunately aren't great but regardless of this Beastmaster is still full of a lot of useless fluff much like all the other pet souls. With 1.6/17 51 Elementalist became a viable low gear spec - something like this would be a good application for beastmaster and generally other pet souls. They either need to be retuned to make them top end viable or rejigged to be competitive low gear souls i.e. good AP scaling.

- RB? Riftblade was one of those souls I just fell in love this inexplicably and it was a shame in recent patches its viability has been limited to 2 or 6 points deep. I think a deep RB viable build (I think there is one currently?) would be good just for variation. I know some are set in their ways and don't like change but personally I love it when completely new builds become viable as they almost make the game feel new and I love the challenge of perfecting a new build/rotation.

If deep RB, deep DW para were both roughly equal top ST and deep champ top AOE and all of which equal to their mage/rogue counterparts (I still pertain clerics should be slightly lower despite loving my cleric) would mean there would be so much more variety in warrrior play style than before. Just from a variety point of view I think warrior dps in 1.8 looks set to be a lot more fun

[PFalcon]

Same could be said for BM.

You said a "competitive 2H" spec. Not a competitive Champ spec.

I want 51 BM to work for raid utility, but we can't all have what we want.

So the Riftblade 2H is at 3080 STDPS?

[Mack0603]

So the Riftblade 2H is at 3080 STDPS?

yes, 41/23/2 RB/Champ/Reav

[Edgeseed]

Thanks for pointing that out

I knew the was some difference.

You were comparing parses from different player with different gears/stats for both specs. If you knew there was some difference, don't quote misleading information. It's your choice that your are more favor to DW but why are you try to get 2-hander nerf just because you don't have a 2-hander or something?

Why some of our warriors are so tempt to nerf one type of weapon/spec because they are in favor of another? Why are we limiting ourself just to one weapon or spec? It's amazing that our warriors so urge to nerf our own class. I only see those trollers try to get us nerf more are having some sort of "legit" reasons.

We should stop the discussion of ST/AOE thing and moved on the posting parses. We have only 2 weeks left. No one wants to see the same thing happen again like 1.7.

[PFalcon]

If the riftblade's 150 behind the nonelemental paragon, that's the best we're going to do by 1.8. I still think the champ isn't being paid enough for its abysmal disconnect penalty. And the beastmaster is just...the whole tree needs to decide what the hell beastmaster is and I doubt it's even possible to make it work in time past a token raidbuffer.

Best just give up, make it a GOOD token raidbuffer, and regroup for 1.9.

[Galibier]

What was that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of you using a tank soul to dps.

And since Trion specifically stated they that change to create synergy between the soul and dps it is WAI and so you argument here is largely a strawman argument. If you are going to be logically consistent you are indeed there going down a road that says the Bloodstalker build should be the top ST build since all it can do is ST dps.

The point is that no build should be equal to another build in one type of dps and then greater in another. Want the ST dps od the other build? You have 6 role slots. Get that better build.

[Mack0603]

You were comparing parses from different player with different gears/stats for both specs. If you knew there was some difference, don't quote misleading information. It's your choice that your are more favor to DW but why are you try to get 2-hander nerf just because you don't have a 2-hander or something?

Why some of our warriors are so tempt to nerf one type of weapon/spec because they are in favor of another? Why are we limiting ourself just to one weapon or spec? It's amazing that our warriors so urge to nerf our own class. I only see those trollers try to get us nerf more are having some sort of "legit" reasons.

We should stop the discussion of ST/AOE thing and moved on the posting parses. We have only 2 weeks left. No one want to see the same thing happened again like 1.7.

I am in no means trying to get 2H "nerfed". I love 2H. I was using a 2H until I got into HK and have yet to have one drop.

I posted those parses to mearly clear some misunderstanding up. I wasn't trying to post misleading information. Yes, they were different people and slight gear differences, but the parses were for a general point. DW and 2H are within 150dps.

[Mack0603]

Here. DW and 2H parses from the SAME person. Paper.

DW - 44/20/2
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...29170486_n.jpg

2H - 41/23/2
http://i.imgur.com/4o7Vx.png

[Sebb]

And since Trion specifically stated they that change to create synergy between the soul and dps it is WAI and so you argument here is largely a strawman argument. If you are going to be logically consistent you are indeed there going down a road that says the Bloodstalker build should be the top ST build since all it can do is ST dps.

The point is that no build should be equal to another build in one type of dps and then greater in another. Want the ST dps od the other build? You have 6 role slots. Get that better build.

WAI? Please the DPS possibilities in the first 16 points of RS is the only thing that rivals DOL as the most broken aspect of this game.


Better build than what? There's no 2h dps spec that holds up to DW.

[Edgeseed]

I am in no means trying to get 2H "nerfed". I love 2H. I was using a 2H until I got into HK and have yet to have one drop.

I posted those parses to mearly clear some misunderstanding up. I wasn't trying to post misleading information. Yes, they were different people and slight gear differences, but the parses were for a general point. DW and 2H are within 150dps.

I see there is more than 150dps difference in between both weapon/specs, more or so 200dps based on my own parses. All we need is to get 2-hander to the level of DW, so both weapon are equally same ST dps, then it's player's choice to choose whatever weapon or spec they like.

Nerfing 2-hander just because ST/AOE cannot in same spec is nonsense. Any 2-hander specs will be better than DW Para in AOE, no matter Champ, BM or RB. Yet, all these 3 dps souls has less mobility then DW, so there is trade off to use either weapon.

[Majorin]

1). Dual wield and two-handed should have competitive specs. None should out shine the other. Normally this debate is limited to warriors who have the Kraken spine and don't want to use two one handers. Whatever.

2) Warriors should have specs that do both excellent single target and AOE damage because the class is limited to only two roles or jobs in the game. Comparing spec choices to a cleric when you consider a warrior is absurd considering the options the cleric class has available. The RW spec currently includes both abilities and it works well in raids and people's perception of what a warrior can do in the game.

Manage expectations. A warrior is not a cleric or similar to other classes. The class badly requires a niche or something unique. For dps this is the RW spec. For all the hate towards this spec it performs well and to do correctly takes some skill.