WOW, yeah that made my eyes bleed dude.... how.... must be dark magic involved.Originally Posted by vg stoper
Atrius is doing a better job than the last guy, so not only did he have to clean up the last devs mess he is also trying to make our class make sense again. At least we scale with ap now instead of just crit. Not perfect but we're getting there.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward,
Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both,
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I die you are forgiven...."
"If I live, I will kill YOU"
such is the rule of honour.
Everyone knows when HK was released that 2h RW was topping charts and the best spec. It was so superior that a grade below or even lower was matching HK geared rogues. Doesn't help that their offhand is basically a stat stick. It was a problem that was fixed awhile ago. It was almost impossible to get a 2h from HK for several months however. As of several patches ago 2h RW had competition for quite awhile.
If you are all for giving rogues priority for raid drops that is something you alone desire. It seems like you want warriors to be strangled into a two hand spec making them EVEN LESS versatile than they are now. I think warriors are the least versatile class. Basically melee dps and tanking. Nothing else. If the class has a spec dedicated to DW they should have equal right on rolling on the 1h and should have oppportunity to play all the class has to offer regardless of whether you only like champ. Every class has had to switch roles. Bm was popular once, dw para/champ etc. IT IS NOTHING NEW if you have to switch again next patch and you should know better than most that this has always been the way things worked.
Maybe trion can add class specific weapons with set bonuses like they were doing with the T2s and crafted items. Maybe that will stop the bickering. And you can make a justified argument for this. But this argument you propose is not valid for this topic. This is about bringing in Ap scaling and allowing the class to diversify into more roles.
Currently we actually need to have the best 2h of the same tier to compete. Either way if you know your class and are a maxer you want both just to get an edge over the other classes. The devs have been aiming for parity and it is going to be whoever gets the best drops first if DW and 2H become the best. Regardless of fighting over 1handers it is imminent when parity across both classes dps roles are in place unless they make class specific items. I just don't see your point. This is not HK all over again..we are not heading into the next raid with a clear advantage where we can actually pass on 1h weapons.
Last edited by Flashmemory; 03-26-2012 at 08:42 PM.
I think this every time someone argues that 2h should be the only weapon type available to us, and that 2h should be the dominant spec for us.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward,
Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both,
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I die you are forgiven...."
"If I live, I will kill YOU"
such is the rule of honour.
In terms of itemization, the good news is that the new set of craftables are such that both classes can use them. Gearing up a raid would be much faster once a BiS pre-relic becomes craftable. This applies to both tanking and DPS weapons. Both classes can use the items (Tank - Sword / DPS - Axe) with equal stat allocation via Dex / Str. Using augments, you can further tailor the item to your liking.
http://i.imgur.com/Gs9vk.jpg
A big reason to this is that 90% of the end-game raiders here have spent their DPS or Loot Council for Kraken Spine. These raiders do not want to fall behind when ID comes out. It's a fair point but it's somewhat myopic when warriors have access to both 2H and 1H abilities.
You don't see Rogues asking that MM or range spec should be top DPS just because "only they can use this item". Remember when this happened and Warriors were screaming at Rogues to get MM nerfed?
With ID level crafting 1H'ers, we would be seeing 1H'ers in abundance.
And....I have still no idea why we as a class are still arguing over this.
Last edited by Blackblade; 03-26-2012 at 09:31 PM.
If you want all the warriors to functionally enter all the rogue loot pools, forcing you to wait on your DPS specs, that's YOUR problem. I'll keep petitioning us to stay separated, or have a good shunt away from rogues.
That shunt is a 2-h weapon. You feel free to roll against rogues. I'll always prefer the option which eliminates them entirely, because it's simply superior design. I don't want to be one of ten raiders vying for 1 of 20 1-h weapons. I have no clue why you do other than you think the idea of holding a weapon in each hand is cooler than holding one weapon with both hands.
Whatever.
Take the 2-h spec. It is the warrior signature piece. Rogues wield small weapons. You will always be a class of large weapons in MMOs. Warrior deserves better than this nonsense. Don't play a pseudorogue.
Last edited by PFalcon; 03-26-2012 at 11:24 PM.
The craftables do make weapon itemization a lot better assuming ample supply of whatever those ingredients are. However, it's looking doubtful that the axe will shunt demand away from BiS 1-h weapons with that +crit stat on it. No one wants that.
Lumping one-handers into one category and saying it's a rogue loot pool is wrong. There are those that are meant for warriors (heavy str) and those meant for rogues (heavy dex). Just because there was a failure at launch to make str our go to stat doesn't mean they weren't intended for warriors. It would be failure of understanding that fact by you and your guild leads to say you have to fight rogues for them and also an issue with you and your guild, not trion, as the distinction is there (more so come 1.8).
Now let's get back to what this thread is for.
Must be nice, to pretend living in a world that doesn't exist, simply because it was the world that should have been.
This is the world that is. Most raid teams give rogues 1-h priority regardless of stats. All that is about to change. I hope 1-h drops compensate appropriately for it, or your DPS will just have to wait. I doubt you'll be rolling a 97 any time soon on a 1-h weapon.
Everything is related to something else. In this case, we're talking about 1-h itemization because of how terrible the 2-h specs are. One is a trash mob spec no one cares about, and the other is a pet spec no one wants to play.
We are a far cry from the quintessential warrior archetype right now. The calling has lost its way.
Last edited by PFalcon; 03-27-2012 at 12:07 AM.
Not only that, but our PA trees only allow us to spec into certain 1-Handers and rogues into other 1-Handers. I believe we get Sword, they get Dagger, and we share Axe.
The Riftguard
Deepwood :: TDQ 4/4 :: FT 2/4
Morning Raiding Guild - Recruiting!
Atrius: "Paragon seems solid. At Level 60 I came in at the top of IA damage."
They get a break on daggers, but daggers are historically poorly itemized for rogues. We roll everything else.
Last edited by PFalcon; 03-27-2012 at 12:10 AM.
Why are we back to this "I dont want to use 1h, warriors should only use 2h" crap? This thread is for ap scailing, not what u dont or do want to use for a weapon. Just becuase u dont want to use 1h, doesnt mean others feel the same way. Both the 1h and 2h should be equaly viable for us as our pa's and trees are ment to be able to use both. Also the dev already said that once he gets all our main builds parsing semi equaly that they would all be given a boost in dps before 1.8
GunnyWoodRift Riders Guild LeaderDeepWood Guardian-Warrior
Read the discourse. We're back on it because the 2-h specs are both terribly designed now. To repeat, one is a mob trash AoE spec that no one will care about, and the other is a pet spec.
Any warrior who matters is now a dual wielding warrior. The other is a token raid buffer and the guy who sweeps up trash pulls isn't even technically on the team.
DPS changes to warrior directly caused this, which is the topic. Specifically, the massive nerf to the relevancy of champion 2-h.
We're pretty much done with the AP scaling part. Nothing to do there.
Last edited by PFalcon; 03-27-2012 at 12:22 AM.
What part of in progress notes is hard to understand? Things are changing every week after our dev gets data to look at from said changes... expect a new change this week, and another one next week... Thats what happens on the pts, things change
GunnyWoodRift Riders Guild LeaderDeepWood Guardian-Warrior
Things are still in flux at the moment. 2H specs to a certain extent are behind in terms of ST DPS although the 41/23/2 does look somewhat promising, its rotation is boring.
IMO - they should bring back the old 51 CH / 15 Para 2H spec (where Off-GCD will proc DB attack points) and simply adjust the damage of Icy Burst if warriors were indeed parsing much higher than other classes. I still like the notion of IB scaling with points in RB tree to incentivize more than just 2 points in RB.
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