AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Wali]

I think there are some important lessons from the 1.8 PTS testing.

First, thank you to Voodoo for conducting BiS warrior dps testing with raid buffs/debuffs on the stationary dummy. It is hard work to get fully setup for raid conditions on the dummy and even harder to do an actual raid on PTS.

Second, we have confirmed that the only datapoint that matters for dps balancing is BiS raid buffed/debuffed dps parses. I know this will personally save me a lot of time, as I don't have BiS gear, so I can save myself the trouble of running parses on PTS. This knowledge may help others as well.

Third, since the parse data Atrius is using is stationary dummy parse data, dps parse results in actual raids may look very different. So whatever changes are in the 1.8 patch will only be approximations. Expect more changes in the several hotfixes that follow 1.8 release.

Fourth, given the amount of changes already made by Atrius, with more coming, I think it's easy to see how broken the original warrior dps design was in the 1.0 release. Having lived through the nerfs/band-aids/bug fixes from 1.0 to 1.7, I still find it amazing that the warrior community was smart enough to develop a spec (2H RW) that took a broken design and delivered competitive dps. I'm confident that my fellow warriors will find some way to deliver competitive dps in 1.8 regardless of what gets pushed to Live.

[Atrius]

The ongoing discussion about on or off GCD and all of that is getting in the way of this thread being useful. So I am going to make a couple final comments about it.

1) I like the play of the Riftblade, the Off Global Cooldown Finishers and how they feel different and unique.

2) If I come up with a way to reduce the issues and put Icy Burst back to where it was, I will do so. As of now that has not happened. But this change will not occur because everyone got upset, it will happen if and only if I find another way to handle the issue.

3) Other Damaging Finishers will not be removed from the Global Cooldown. This will not happen. As we move forward we may find places for a Finisher or normal ability that is off the Global Cooldown, but it will be part of a carefully calculated choice and not a wide sweeping 'Remove everything from the Global Cooldown and just make it do less damage"

If you still want to be upset, please go post in another thread.

[Drathek]

The ongoing discussion about on or off GCD and all of that is getting in the way of this thread being useful. So I am going to make a couple final comments about it.

1) I like the play of the Riftblade, the Off Global Cooldown Finishers and how they feel different and unique.

2) If I come up with a way to reduce the issues and put Icy Burst back to where it was, I will do so. As of now that has not happened. But this change will not occur because everyone got upset, it will happen if and only if I find another way to handle the issue.

3) Other Damaging Finishers will not be removed from the Global Cooldown. This will not happen. As we move forward we may find places for a Finisher or normal ability that is off the Global Cooldown, but it will be part of a carefully calculated choice and not a wide sweeping 'Remove everything from the Global Cooldown and just make it do less damage"

If you still want to be upset, please go post in another thread.

Atrius-- i just want to give u props man. Not saying that I've agreed with all your choices, but to me at least it seems like you are doing this the best you can, trying to keep things even and being methodical about it. I look forward to seeing the next wave of changes with dps being boosted back up, and will try to do some champ/bm tests as soon as i can.

[intrinsc]

If you still want to be upset, please go post in another thread.

Best line ever. As for constructive: You need raid parses, and I'm afraid only a certain amount of these warriors have the resources to provide raid parses because they have tons of min/maxers in their guild who will get on and provide raid parses. All the power to them. That being said, I hope you can still appreciate the few unraid buffed parses that are here and there. Kallim's come to mind. He'd have to do all those parses over again with the new changes, but still.

Either way, appreciate your hard work, Atrius. Keep it up. Don't let the few mad people represent the whole class!

[GunnyWood]

OK trying this again, I think its right this time, if not im done... I did some testing with the 44/22 para/champ today. I did a few different parses with different variables. All with same PA points, same weapons, armor, rings, trinket. All parses at 5 min These parses are with most hk gear(non relic)

--First Test Self Buffed (no consumbales) 1,801dps/2,200(2 different parses, not sure what happend on this one)
http://i.imgur.com/Uf6sB.png
http://i.imgur.com/pqHYP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yevB9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BcNyP.jpg

--Second Test Self Buffed (With Consumables) 2,433dps
http://i.imgur.com/l4s3q.png
http://i.imgur.com/n43NZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GiBvc.jpg

--Third Test Self Buffed (with consumables) AP Heavy 2,240
http://i.imgur.com/GQwLm.png
http://i.imgur.com/55Lkn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j7aZR.jpg


Thanks for the help Undrsiege

[Sebb]

OK trying this again, I think its right this time, if not im done... I did some testing with the 44/22 para/champ today. I did a few different parses with different variables. All with same PA points, same weapons, armor, rings, trinket. All parses at 5 min These parses are with most hk gear(non relic)

--First Test Self Buffed (no consumbales) 1,801dps/2,200(2 different parses, not sure what happend on this one)
http://i.imgur.com/Uf6sB.png
http://i.imgur.com/pqHYP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yevB9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BcNyP.jpg

--Second Test Self Buffed (With Consumables) 2,433dps
http://i.imgur.com/l4s3q.png
http://i.imgur.com/n43NZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GiBvc.jpg

--Third Test Self Buffed (with consumables) AP Heavy 2,240
http://i.imgur.com/GQwLm.png
http://i.imgur.com/55Lkn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j7aZR.jpg


Thanks for the help Undrsiege

Why do you have 82 builders but only 54 follow ups? And no shifting blades? (Self buffed w/ consumables)

[GunnyWood]

Why do you have 82 builders but only 54 follow ups? And no shifting blades? (Self buffed w/ consumables)

I have played with shifting blades, but havent been able to tell if its a dps upgrade or not... not sure on the other, I will try again, I may of gotten distracted on that parse... will try again after raid tonight with shifting blades and without and try to pay more attention to what im doing... did it after i got high today... probobly should have waited till i was sober

[LocoOne]

New changes are up with Icy assualt but missing alot:

- Scald not applying with FB up
- Icy Assualt dont proc enchanced burst
- Does less damage than punishing blow
- Dont get bonus from AOTR

51rb/15para
selfbuffed aotr, wotr, storm b, tablet, whetstones and food buff.
stats:
1105ap/1109cr
estrode 2h 60.6 dps

http://oi42.tinypic.com/3309sbb.jpg

[Atrius]

Will look into those Issues Loco, Thank you.

And thank you for any parses, Raid or not.

[Vayra]

Agree. 3 weeks to id and we have no spec. 1.7 warriors were ruined for a couple days after release.

Atrius You Do REALIZE how important the race for world firsts are for some guilds. Would you take a warrior with a last minute spec to ID or someone else who knows and has had their spec nailed down and tightened for a while? Don't you even think bring the player not the class - everyone has the same *potential* to play rift well.

Warrior is still faceroll to play. You'll do just fine in ID, worry more about learning fight mechanics than your personal dps the first night.

[paper]

Will look into those Issues Loco, Thank you.

And thank you for any parses, Raid or not.

I should be able to send you some parses after raid tonight. I was able to do a quick one, but wasn't able to get a comparison vs equal geared rogues/mages/clerics.

[GunnyWood]

Why do you have 82 builders but only 54 follow ups? And no shifting blades? (Self buffed w/ consumables)

Ok looks like i screwed up my macros and key bindings... will try again after hk tonight

[Blackblade]

New changes are up with Icy assualt but missing alot:

- Scald not applying with FB up
- Icy Assualt dont proc enchanced burst
- Does less damage than punishing blow
- Dont get bonus from AOTR

51rb/15para
selfbuffed aotr, wotr, storm b, tablet, whetstones and food buff.
stats:
1105ap/1109cr
estrode 2h 60.6 dps

http://oi42.tinypic.com/3309sbb.jpg

Wow, that's quite a massive dip from the 51 RB / 15 PA 1 PTS Set ago. Surprising we going from 3k -> 1.6k.

Is RW a DPS loss? It seems like you might be better off using searing strike all the way (both 44% crit)? Guess this is inconclusive as there is an additional attack point proc with RW.

And....Icy Assualt hits less than a builder? Heck, it hits even less than Icy Burst which is Off-GCD. Needs to be tuned up significantly.

[the_real_seebs]

The ongoing discussion about on or off GCD and all of that is getting in the way of this thread being useful. So I am going to make a couple final comments about it.

1) I like the play of the Riftblade, the Off Global Cooldown Finishers and how they feel different and unique.

I gotta say, I approve of the idea of having different specs feel different. One of the things I've loved about this game is that if I suddenly decide to level an alt, I just grab a new spec and the game plays totally differently.

[LocoOne]

Wow, that's quite a massive dip from the 51 RB / 15 PA 1 PTS Set ago. Surprising we going from 3k -> 1.6k.

Is RW a DPS loss? It seems like you might be better off using searing strike all the way (both 44% crit)? Guess this is inconclusive as there is an additional attack point proc with RW.

And....Icy Assualt hits less than a builder? Heck, it hits even less than Icy Burst which is Off-GCD. Needs to be tuned up significantly.

That parse was not made for top dps but for testing the new skill.
I still believe Atrius can pull it trough all we can do is provide the data he needs, all the QQ really needs to stop, it helps none.