AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[PFalcon]

Another issue that I think was brought up already is how these GCD finishers will affect pvp.

Right now warrior damage in pvp relies on a combination of oGCD dots, and a bit of oGCD burst, along with regular attacks. If you remove all oGCD finishers, we will be forced to use our regular finishers. For the sake of pve dps, these finishers will need huge buffs to bring us back in line.

This will create a situation where warrior damage is completely front-loaded, namely in the form of said finishers. So a pair of 51 champ warriors can go built 2 AP, Bull Rush into a crowd of people, Proper Timing + Bladefury, and you got a pile of corpses. Awesome, but difficult to execute strat, which should be rewarded. But when entire groups of people start losing half their health, then get feared, and lose the other half 5 seconds later... there will be QQ, followed by nerfs.

Ill be blunt, I do not have faith that Trion will code ability specific pvp damage reductions to specific warrior finishers. I imagine they will either scale down warrior finisher dps as a whole, killing our pve dps. Or apply a blanket reduction to our attacks in pvp, putting us in a worse place than we are now.

No one gives a **** about PVP balance first. You balance PVE. Then you throw a fudge factor in for final PVP damage. End of story.

[Pines]

There are a few changes needed to make the Beastmaster rotation viable, which others have pointed out in this thread.

[XxShunsuixX]

Yes, you will now be behind Rogues and Mages. I am aware of this. It is intended for this stage in PTS testing. The next stage after this will be to do a bump us up back to where they are.

Currently, most builds I am testing look to be between 3-400 below the Rogue/Mage DPS numbers. Which is good because it means I can make a change upward of 3-400 DPS. But if that bump upwards is causing builds that use a single ability to gain another 3-500 DPS beyond that then I cannot make that bump at all. So it really is simple. I will only be bumping Warriors back up if I can verify that the Champ/BM build is not going to cause issues.

So I am asking for your help to make sure we are not stuck with the purple cat as your best build and we are not reliant on a single ability as a crutch to achieve the numbers we want (Strike Like Iron, Icy Burst).

Atrius, everyone liked using Icy burst and Ogcd finishers. It made game play faster and not slow with our 1.5gcd's thats is the whole point. We liked having a build with an ogcd otherwise like stated through this thread warrior play would be slow and clunky. I don't know one person who had a problem with ogcd finishers.

[Sebb]

Where in the hell did you see any parses where that was being raised by that much. No one ever linked a parse like that. Only 5k parses ever where when rb abilities were multiplicative when you first hit with ap scaling changes.. since you fixed that these are the correct numbers i listed.. So therefore you went off old parses that you had already fixed. I can guarantee no one was unhappy about icy burst in any build and that no one was somehow gaining 400-600 dps with it.. not possible.

Probably same people parsing in ID test gear...

[Hunt55511]

Probably same people parsing in ID test gear...

Gabe, looks like Maza'll be my main in 1.8.

...Just sayin'. Sigh.

[Wylt]

Yes, you will now be behind Rogues and Mages. I am aware of this. It is intended for this stage in PTS testing. The next stage after this will be to do a bump us up back to where they are.

Currently, most builds I am testing look to be between 3-400 below the Rogue/Mage DPS numbers. Which is good because it means I can make a change upward of 3-400 DPS. But if that bump upwards is causing builds that use a single ability to gain another 3-500 DPS beyond that then I cannot make that bump at all. So it really is simple. I will only be bumping Warriors back up if I can verify that the Champ/BM build is not going to cause issues.

So I am asking for your help to make sure we are not stuck with the purple cat as your best build and we are not reliant on a single ability as a crutch to achieve the numbers we want (Strike Like Iron, Icy Burst).

When you do your bump... do it by lowering our GCD.

[kenji1134]

Atrius, everyone liked using Icy burst and Ogcd finishers. It made game play faster and not slow with our 1.5gcd's thats is the whole point. We liked having a build with an ogcd otherwise like stated through this thread warrior play would be slow and clunky. I don't know one person who had a problem with ogcd finishers.

Idea... 1 second GCD?

[PFalcon]

There are a few changes needed to make the Beastmaster rotation viable, which others have pointed out in this thread.

He's not saying make it viable.
He's asking where to nerf it because apparently it's now ahead of all the other specs.

[XxShunsuixX]

Probably same people parsing in ID test gear...

I parsed it in Id test gear only major differnece in gear was the weapon and that still only boosted it up 200 dps cause a 64dps to a 73dps weapon is an oilstone right? so 200 dps? Also gear stats on id test gear was hardly an upgrade maybe like 3-4 stat increases here and there. So no way they were even still 400-600 dps ahead of live gear.

[Hunt55511]

When you do your bump... do it by lowering our GCD.

This.

Idea... 1 second GCD?

And this.

If we're stuck with GCD finishers, having a 1s GCD would fix our snail's-pace problems. Obviously our damage and energy would need to be adjusted accordingly, but...Please, for the love of god don't make warrior gameplay slow, when you have a multitude telling you that this is what will happen with these changes.

[PFalcon]

Claim 1: IB specs did 400-600 DPS more than non-IB specs
False: IB spec champ beat 44para/22 champ pure physical spec by about 100 dps.

Claim 2: 40 champ/20BM is OP
????????

Where did this come from again?

[XxShunsuixX]

He's not saying make it viable.
He's asking where to nerf it because apparently it's now ahead of all the other specs.

Leave Bm where it is at.. people are happy with the numbers it pulls. 40champ/26bm pulls 4k raid buffed that was only 300dps behind our top spec.. That's viable and a raid dps increase compared to live where bm is about 600-800 behind top build(which is still a raid increase depending on ur raid dps and what ur bm can actually pull).

[Sebb]

This.


And this.

If we're stuck with GCD finishers, having a 1s GCD would fix that. Obviously our damage and energy would need to be adjusted accordingly, but...Please, for the love of god don't make warrior gameplay slow, when you have a multitude telling you that this is what will happen with these changes.

+1 to this.

[Hunt55511]

Leave Bm where it is at.. people are happy with the numbers it pulls. 40champ/26bm pulls 4k raid buffed that was only 300dps behind our top spec.. That's viable and a raid dps increase compared to live where bm is about 600-800 behind top build(which is still a raid increase depending on ur raid dps and what ur bm can actually pull).

He's trying to bring all specs in-line with each other so that we can have multiple viable builds, and then boost all of their damage to be in-line with other callings.

While I love the intention, I loathe the way he went about bring downing some of those builds.

[Maug]

If you even payed any attention to the parses Paper linked you would see a bm doing 4k fully raid buffed
on a dummy with the previous 51chap/15rb with the ogcd icy burst doing 4306 and a mage doing 4350 and rogue doing 4307.. that was all equal in comparison to what rogues and mages will be 1.8.. Why in the hell did you change any thing.. When people say bm will be top spec that's not a good thing that means we will be 300 behind rogues mages and even with clerics.. c'mon man pay attention please.. your only causing more work for yourself atrius.. it was fine before ur changes revert them please.

So a 51chap/15rb with the ogcd icy burst doing 4306 and was comparable to mages and rogue's, umm Champs ST was the best DPS and the best ST dps, while the other ST specs were 300 or more behind, it looked like we wanted to replace the RB 2H spec with a 51 Champ spec. I like the changes, but I would like to see the parses of each spec to compare since the update went through.