AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

[Adnoz]

The end goal is to get the DPS of the Warriors to be on par with the Rogues. Unfortunately with the foundations we had, we could not increase damage like that without creating specs that went far beyond the numbers we were trying to attain. These nerfs you have been seeing are shaving off the little bits of overpowered here and there to get us to a point where we can increase everyone to the place where competing with Rogues is common among several builds instead of having everyone playing one build.

That being said, I have seen the numbers on my end from my testing and the Rogue developers testing, but I would like to see from you guys how far behind you feel you are, so I can compare the two and see where any disconnect between all of you, and us lie.

Thank you all, I think we are getting much closer to what we want this Calling to be and that would not be the case without the feedback you have provided.

I hope you mean competitive with blade dancer rogues, nightblade rogues. It would be aclear imbalance that surely even trion wouldn't be so bad as to ignore the clear imbalance we would have, if multiple warrior specs, all with aoe, interrupts, and in some, partial ranged damage, were to be competitive with the rogue spec with no aoe, no interrupt, poor target switching, and positional requirements which disallow its use on a number of boss encounters, right?

[Sekhmet The Fierce]

The way warriors weapon swap you can't even play that card.

Except the build that encouraged weapon-swapping has been gutted. So yeah, the argument still sticks.

[Undrsiege]

Except the build that encouraged weapon-swapping has been gutted. So yeah, the argument still sticks.

May be gutted for pve but weapon swap still very useful for ranged attacks when being kited.... Regardless a good change to not base your dps off a crystal which may change next tier..,

[Sekhmet The Fierce]

May be gutted for pve but weapon swap still very useful for ranged attacks when being kited.... Regardless a good change to not base your dps off a crystal which may change next tier..,

Also, do note that to max weapon-swap type builds, you need to be more geared than someone who doesn't need weapon-swapping (you need more weapons). Plus, ranged attacks are filler until you can close the gap and are not limited to Paragon. Since riftblade has ranged attacks (only one for 15 points though, so it is a bit weak in comparison to Paragon), it isn't just a strength of the Paragon tree, and Riftblade tends to be a bit more weapon agnostic. Plus, Champ does have Bullrush. Everything a warrior does is within 20m, ranged and gap closers. In essence, a warrior isn't limited to Pure souls from the get go, since each soul tends to provide a myriad of abilities though with different strengths highlighted.

As such, you can't just view souls for warriors as being pure ST/AoE/etc. Paragon is certainly more about ST, but can still do *some* AoE and soul synergy allows you to improve the AoE side of things. It has mobility though, something Riftblade also offers. Para/RB and vice versa tend to be very range heavy, very mobile, etc. What warrior souls tend to do is combine flavours as opposed to pure damage types unlike some callings and their souls.

[Nhats]

Hello,

i would feel very happy if you could take a look into these things for Paragon.

• Double Jeopardy: pls change it to a 6% AP Bonus instead of Crit Bonus there are too much +Crit Talents in the Paragon Tree

• Death Touch: pls take a look on the debuff changing it or changing it into a buff for follow-ups or take a look at the damage, its a non useful 31 talent. It should be a must have Talent, maybe as a PvP Gift in the Paragon Tree.

Thanks!

nhats`-

[Sebb]

The point that I think Atrius is trying to get to is where Every dps build has to include at least 16 champion.

Slayers and Frenzied are really powerful abilities. The way the changes are rolling, a RB-Para build could become equally viable as a RB-Champ and a para-champ. The point is to give us options.

As part of this issue Atrius, can you look at how DW is calculated using non RB abilities? I feel like the point of 1.8 is to make all souls viable as part of a build that has differing abilities (AOE vs range vs mobility vs combat buffs). The outlier here is that DWing doesn't work for any ability outside Paragon. Only MH weapon damage is calculated, causing the ability to always do less damage than with a 2h.


PS - PTS HAS BEEN UPDATED

[Undrsiege]

Hello,

• Double Jeopardy: pls change it to a 6% AP Bonus instead of Crit Bonus there are too much +Crit Talents in the Paragon Tree

nhats`-

This ability is not affected by the crit cap and allows a straight 6% chance to crit hit with followup attacks.. It is a pretty decent skill and 6% AP would probably in the long run be weaker.

[intrinsc]

As part of this issue Atrius, can you look at how DW is calculated using non RB abilities? I feel like the point of 1.8 is to make all souls viable as part of a build that has differing abilities (AOE vs range vs mobility vs combat buffs). The outlier here is that DWing doesn't work for any ability outside Paragon. Only MH weapon damage is calculated, causing the ability to always do less damage than with a 2h.


PS - PTS HAS BEEN UPDATED

Does it have the update with 100% WM proc to Follow ups?

[Shakaale]

Nop, no 100% proc on follow up for now.

[Sebb]

Does it have the update with 100% WM proc to Follow ups?

No that didn't make it in.

Did anyone else notice weird behavior with Titan's strike? The AOE portion was doing far far less. I was guessing that because the AOE is delayed, it's calculating off less APs than when you used the ability.

[Sekhmet The Fierce]

Does it have the update with 100% WM proc to Follow ups?

Nope. Paragon as it stands is extremely RNG. Kinda hard to get a good parse with 44/22 when I seem to go between 2.3k and 2.6k. 44/20/2 with Icy Burst is a bit more consistent due to lots of hits instead of slower but harder hits, parsing around 2.6k. Slayers nerf has brought damage a fair bit down, but oGCD finishers are the way to go still.

I parsed 2.63k DPS with a 51Champ/15RB with my Sylvan Greatblade. Probably could do better when I get used to the rotation, but I seemed to have settled on Power Strike x 3 -> Fiery Burst -> Disruptive Strike -> Icy Burst -> (Power Strike x 2 -> Icy Burst) until Fiery Burst ticks close to zero -> Power Strike x 2 -> Fiery Burst -> Disruptive -> Icy Burst -> etc. Frenzied Strike gets used whenever it comes off CD. Pretty stable output.

No that didn't make it in.

Did anyone else notice weird behavior with Titan's strike? The AOE portion was doing far far less. I was guessing that because the AOE is delayed, it's calculating off less APs than when you used the ability.

I think the splash damage is calculated from AP now, as opposed to the straight up % base damage. The ability seems to have a very large splash area, as it is impossible to test it for ST DPS without catching one other dummy.

[Zyzyx]

The end goal is to get the DPS of the Warriors to be on par with the Rogues. Unfortunately with the foundations we had, we could not increase damage like that without creating specs that went far beyond the numbers we were trying to attain. These nerfs you have been seeing are shaving off the little bits of overpowered here and there to get us to a point where we can increase everyone to the place where competing with Rogues is common among several builds instead of having everyone playing one build.

That being said, I have seen the numbers on my end from my testing and the Rogue developers testing, but I would like to see from you guys how far behind you feel you are, so I can compare the two and see where any disconnect between all of you, and us lie.

Thank you all, I think we are getting much closer to what we want this Calling to be and that would not be the case without the feedback you have provided.

If this is the case then you are going to have to get the DPS of rogue builds to be on par with warrior builds afterwards. There are many boss encounters where we are not able to use "singluar" top dps spec due to mechanics.

[LittleKiwi]

If this is the case then you are going to have to get the DPS of rogue builds to be on par with warrior builds afterwards. There are many boss encounters where we are not able to use "singluar" top dps spec due to mechanics.

go play bard than.

now back under your bridge and leave us alone.

[Adnoz]

go play bard than.

now back under your bridge and leave us alone.

Nothing in that post was trolling?

[Sebb]

Nothing in that post was trolling?

There was nothing in that post that really belongs in this thread either.