1.7.1 warrior @ sicaron dps?

[Sebb]

If it's going to make his job easier in the future I am in full support. AP Scaling will just make everything better. We are back to pre 1.7 DPS. I really don't care if other classes out-DPS us now because I'm not that type of gamer.

Personally I think it makes the job harder, because it's too hard to predict the effects of certain buffs like WOTM and synergy crystals. Running a BM/Champ/Para spec will have WOTM do something completely different than Champ/Para, or RB/Para.

Sure most of those are uncommon specs, but it's just to prove a point that if we ever get to spot where other specs are viable, balance is crazy hard to do when a buff or synergy crystal can give you +30% some times and +10% other times.

[Lyrea]

I thought I'd share some results from my guild's last night HK 10/11 run ..
(Estrode swd + ~8dps from PA)

I was happy on a personal level on murdantix, pre 1.7 I was always at 3k but last night was at 3.2k dps. (3FB rotation)
Melee rogues: had one guy close to 3.9k dps(thought my meter malfunctioned but it didn't) , and another about 3.5k. Mages still hovering around 3.3~3.4k .

Sicaron was somehow ****! Pre 1.7 I'm always at 3.7k with 2 contracts, got lucky last night with 0 contracts but only did 3.65k (1 or 2 mess up on rotation) . Can't give an accurate rogue parse here but top rogue was at 4.4k with two contracts.

AOE dps is generally higher though but notice fall in % Poth gives and increase in % mighty blow bladefury gives.

Overall I think it is not too bad of a change if you ignore your Sicaron parses.

[Scarchasm]

Overall I think it is not too bad of a change if you ignore your Sicaron parses.

not ignoring sicaron parses is what this thread is about. sicaron parses are not just for epeen, but the fight speaks for an entire genre of raid encounters that will give a bonus to raid dps. so far, we've seen this mechanic at play on grug, sicaron, the high priest in rotp, and in every single flaring power and wild growth we've been affected by since 1.7.

because of our ridiculously low base damage relative to our total damage, mechanics which multiply our base damage by a given amount are always going to affect us less than they will other classes. having disparities like this is a terrible underlying issue that needs to be addressed going forward, especially with ID in preliminary test phases right now.

Though it may not seem like much, if wild growth and flaring power give the other classes an average of 8 and 12% damage gain while we're getting 3 and 5, bringing a lot of warriors to raids handicaps the overall raid dps as a whole. with us no longer parsing highest (even on dummies) there is no clear reason to bring us, except for bringing one tank and to not have to disenchant plate drops. if you make us a burden to bring along, its plausible the calling will lose raid slots in fights that are designed (like so many in rift are designed) to wipe the raid at 2 or 3%

the easy fix would be to make all these multiplicative mechanics work on total damage.. a tougher fix would be to make them work on a different percentage of each calling's total damage.. an unacceptable (but likely) fix would be to leave it as is and fix it a year down the line after you've retweaked tons of abilities because you simply couldn't figure out why warriors aren't scaling as well in t3 and t4 raids as other callings.

[Koe]

flaring powe

Flaring power gives 15% AP/SP, not 15% damage.

[PFalcon]

Hahaha go Dag. Sicaron parsing only matters to the usual suspects who can't not perseverate on NGGGGGG MAXIMUM BEST NUMBAR EVAR!

Don't know about you all but warriors all top ACT's cumulative raid DPS for HK. If the zone is an enemy with static HP, warriors take most of it. Granted that doesn't matter in a game with no time limit, but we honestly own the lion's share of focus in HK. We're fine.

Got beaten by 150 dps on sica, no care.

[Primalthirst]

Hahaha go Dag. Sicaron parsing only matters to the usual suspects who can't not perseverate on NGGGGGG MAXIMUM BEST NUMBAR EVAR!

Does anyone have any idea what this guy is saying?

[Angryweasel]

Does anyone have any idea what this guy is saying?

Something in danish first then goes on a ramble.

[Pipedreams]

Good thing we got a substantial DPS boost on non damage modifier fights. Don't let the mathematicians fool you into thinking 3x FB > SB/BF. The difference is actually pretty substantial in a real raid environment.

[Vioarr]

Is that what you ran yesterday for Sicaron Pipe?

[Steelwind]

You should definitely use Shifting Blades rotation on Sicaron. Try and time it when the buff is active on your raid. Sicaron's damage buff is multiplicative. Therefore the 3xFB rotation will make you lose dps. Not where other parts of Rift encounters do this. This is the only exception.

[nicat]

Last night (granted we are only 5/11 so I don't have as much gear)

To me it seemed that the sic buff was just not stacking, or not entirely stacking with potentially some of out other skills that increase by xyz%.

I could be wrong, but say my RW normally crits for between 4.2k-4.7k. I would rarely see RW crits on sic for over 5.2k So it's like it either isn't stacking with WotM or SLI. I would think it was WotM though, as it was definitely higher with a 3pt SLI, just not as high as it was in 1.6

[Pipedreams]

Sicaron is a poor baseline for comparison, however fun it might be to have extra damage modifiers, a fight like murdantix will give us a better idea of where we stand against the other classes. Using shifting blades when your WM procs allow is still far superior on a fight like murdantix. Just thought I would share since I have seen some of the posters on these forums claiming otherwise, when the actual results tell a completely different story.

[nicat]

Sicaron is a poor baseline for comparison, however fun it might be to have extra damage modifiers, a fight like murdantix will give us a better idea of where we stand against the other classes. Using shifting blades when your WM procs allow is still far superior on a fight like murdantix. Just thought I would share since I have seen some of the posters on these forums claiming otherwise, when the actual results tell a completely different story.

I think for most warriors, the concern has more to do with, it is a bug with the sic buff, or is it showing a true scaling issue with warriors.

Though it does have an impact for guilds still trying to progress through sic, I would say the dps check shouldn't really be much of a concern for most guilds progressing to that point in HK.

well that and I am sure some people just like seeing big numbers.

[Rizaz]

I believe it is wrong to associate warrior's lack of damage gain on Sicaron (relative to other classes) with a lack of scaling. Sicaron's contract aura gives a damage gain which I'm guessing is additive because we get the least gain from it currently and also have the most additive modifiers.

Murdantix is a better parse, but murdantix is also bad because it's so short. Ours was 2:29 this week. Our akylios was something like 12:15.

[nemecis]

Just wanted to pop in and note the following:

Whenever someone sends us parses on Siccaron as an argument for class balance we often ignore it. There are a variety of issues with the encounter and using it as any sort of a real baseline for comparison.

I fully encourage you to compete amongst yourselves on whatever fights you want to, but from a developer standpoint - Siccaron is not something we use as any basis for balance.

~Daglar
Lead Game Designer: Rift

So a fight where ALL classes are in melee range, with limited movement requirements, and zero adds shouldnt be used as a baseline? Interesting.

As others have already pointed out, there are certainly other examples we can use, but I find it rather insulting that Warriors reporting 1k less damage than other classes gets ignored simply because of the boss in question.

If Sicaron's buff scales better for other classes (as the data suggests) then I would assume as a developer this reveals how poorly warriors scale off %damage, and should be looked at more closely.

If it's the RNG due to contracts that allows you to dismiss these parses, I suggest to you that parses be taken as an average, not individually.

You've already stated there's no intention of giving Warriors a healing soul. You've already stated that a true support soul is a long ways away if at all. So what we're left with is melee damage and tanking as our fortes.

With 1.6 and presumably 1.8 improving Rogue and Cleric tanking abilities, with 1.7 allowing clerics a melee damage equivalent (while retaining ranged ST and AoE options), you'll have to forgive us Warriors for assuming doing the LEAST dps on an encounter IDEALLY SUITED for our abilities seems just not right.

Signed,
perplexed.