Strategy against a healer *smile*

[Nemrud]

Here's the scene.

One Defiant chloro / something healer. 0 mana. I am repeating, ZERO mana. Drinks health pot, gets to full HP. Repeating: She has NO MANA.

One Guardian VK 51 silencing, rift summoning, interrupting, purging, snaring, burning mana of enemy.
One Guardian bard barding or whatever them bards do.
One Guardian warrior (2H RW build) DPSing.
One Guardian warrior (S&B 51 RB spec) DPSing.
One Guardian melee rogue DPSing.
Defiant is alone, no healer, no help.

It's a rank 6-8 WF. The fight starts at base of Guardians, Defiant starts to run towards their base.

Question - How many miliseconds does it take for them to kill the healer?

Reminder: It is a BALANCED PvP system.

[bear_on_the_job]

It's a trick question! The healer never dies!

[Mels]

In that scenario:

51VK= useless
Bard = useless
2H= heal debuff
s&b= useless
rogue = lacking proper info

conclusion, you never killed him assuming he knew wtf to do.

[Testercules]

A bard and 2 melee usually destroy a healer if they aren't being cross-healed. Chloro's usually stay up longer than a cleric in this scenario, however. Blink forward (11 pyro, so I don't know if healers use this?), jump-turn insta-squirrel (0 dom is 2s), shield crap, ranged fear. Not hard to get away, especially if their team is with them. Focusing a chloro just seems like your team failed to begin with, because that isn't being strategic. Technically the rogue or vk could have kept him from doing anything useful for his team, while the other dps chase down, what I suspect was, the fang carrier.

In terms of balance:

It's kinda dumb how long mages can tank over that of a warrior. A rogue wins out over both. I've used vk/rb and lasted awhile, but the healing in that blows. Haven't tried it with champ. I've made a pally/warlord spec that lasts longer based on what you're going up against, but there's really no middle ground. I suppose you could try pally/vk. A pally can heal relatively well, but they have to block or be in melee range, giving the mage an advantage over this. Plus your tools for CC and dps are far less than that of a mage (apparently being worked on in 1.7 with regards to physical damage). They can blink away while silenced. That's probably the dumbest thing for balance out of it all. I mean, come on, it uses mana.

Playing around with mage soul builder, and it's really crazy how many great things can be paired with a healing soul. Right now I have 44 chloro, 15 pyro, 7 dom and it's making me want to play a mage. lol
You don't need 60s break free when you can flicker every 20s that does something better (especially after 1.7 when you get it free anyway). Reduced stuns and silences by 30% (OP on a healer!). 30m ranged root. No cd on squirrel, and increased timer with the same talent. Interupt + knockback in the same spell (wtb this). Reflect next spell. Brez. Remove CC on an aly. Cleanse. All types of heals. Using ranged snare Burning Bonds (pyro), OR squirrel reduces the next squirrel to a 1.5s cast. And this is all just from casual glances at the talents. I'm sure after you've strung everything together with heals, shields, helping allies stay up, you're almost never in the hot seat playing this class in this way. What's more depressing is that it does far, far, far more damage than warriors who try to play defensively. Hell, even more than those with just offensive souls. lol Ranged aoe damage that also aoe heals. GG. Balanced.

[Nemrud]

It's a trick question! The healer never dies!

In that scenario:
51VK= useless
Bard = useless
2H= heal debuff
s&b= useless
rogue = lacking proper info
conclusion, you never killed him assuming he knew wtf to do.

We have two winners.

She never died.

She ran half the zone with ALL of us pounding (DW Paragon had the top DPS on Guardian stat list) on her. She reached her friends. She survived all the run OOM, and finally died after half of the raid (that is 7-8 people) pounded on her. Probbaly went AFK or something.

I've been playing MMOs and PvPing since Ultima Online, 1995 (alright I'm old, I know).

I've never seen a bigger ******** then this. This whole mess must be the worst melee combat system ever coded to dated.

I've got the name of healer, name of people pounding on her, time of WF, some screens. I do not post them because name calling is bannable, etc etc.

If you've read my previous posts, you'd know how much I love Rift and think it's the best game out there PvE wise. I also think Trion's respectful & creative stance on their product is top notch.

But this PvP is a shame. Even for a game like SWTOR. For Rift, it is dreadful.

Balanced my... ... ...

Going against a marine machine gun over 100 yards with bare fists is more balanced. We really need a dev to start working on melee, especially warriors.

[Oaf]

One Defiant chloro / something healer.

Does this mean the chloro was alone or did she have a pocket healer?

[Nemrud]

Does this mean the chloro was alone or did she have a pocket healer?

All alone. I meant Chloro & something specced. Cookie cutter unkillable build.

Seems like under those silk robes, Trion let healers wear diamond skin. A full party of melee can't even dent it.

Soon we will all be healers! Heal each other in WFs singing peaceful songs and throwing daffodils around. It must be fun to be in GOD mode always.

[Oaf]

Drinks health pot, gets to full HP.

WTB those heath pots.

Lets assume the Chloro has 50% reduced damage from valor.

One Guardian VK 51 silencing, rift summoning, interrupting, purging, snaring, burning mana of enemy.

51vk should be pulling around 150 dps on a high valor target and has an 8 second silence. Rift Summon + Accord of Emptiness should make it almost impossible for anyone to run away. Insatiable Hunger, Devouring Blow, Soul Pillage, Power Sink, and Unstable Reaction would make it impossible for any blue bar to get enough mana to cast a spell.

One Guardian warrior (2H RW build) DPSing.

Lingering Wounds, ~700 dps in pvp, interrupts, snare, and fear.

One Guardian warrior (S&B 51 RB spec) DPSing.

Silence, Root, a 12 second snare, Rift Surge, Stun, ~600 dps.

One Guardian melee rogue DPSing.

~600 dps?

It's a rank 6-8 WF. The fight starts at base of Guardians, Defiant starts to run towards their base.

Smart VK casts Rift Summon - Shock Burst and Keeps mana at 0 and purges any cooldowns. 2050 dps + whatever a bard can do + silenced chloro with 8k hp and 0 mana = dead in 4 seconds. Even with a very conservative dps estimate and ignoring the CC and debuffs of 4 of the 5 guardians there is no way a solo Chloro should have lived.

She never died.

You are either lying or had 5 epic fail Guardians. Even if the Chloro could miraculously pull 1000 single target hps with bloom and flourish only while 50% heal debuffed she should be dead before the 8 second silence has worn off.

[Nemrud]

WTB those heath pots.

Lets assume the Chloro has 50% reduced damage from valor.
51vk should be pulling around 150 dps on a high valor target and has an 8 second silence. Rift Summon + Accord of Emptiness should make it almost impossible for anyone to run away. Insatiable Hunger, Devouring Blow, Soul Pillage, Power Sink, and Unstable Reaction would make it impossible for any blue bar to get enough mana to cast a spell.
Lingering Wounds, ~700 dps in pvp, interrupts, snare, and fear.
Silence, Root, a 12 second snare, Rift Surge, Stun, ~600 dps.
~600 dps?
Smart VK casts Rift Summon - Shock Burst and Keeps mana at 0 and purges any cooldowns. 2050 dps + whatever a bard can do + silenced chloro with 8k hp and 0 mana = dead in 4 seconds. Even with a very conservative dps estimate and ignoring the CC and debuffs of 4 of the 5 guardians there is no way a solo Chloro should have lived.
You are either lying or had 5 epic fail Guardians. Even if the Chloro could miraculously pull 1000 single target hps with bloom and flourish only while 50% heal debuffed she should be dead before the 8 second silence has worn off.

She wasn't 0 health when we started, was like 3/5 maybe, so you can buy that heal pot everywhere

Two things:

1 - She had 9100 HP, which is nothing to burn down when she's OOM, just a detail
2 - Noone in their right mind would come to boards and take their time to lie about this, why would I? Not like Trion listens to warriors, everyone has been saying we're broken everywhere for 4 months now, noone really cares.

In theory VK may sound like he can burn mana and lock healers. In reality, what VK does is purge & rift summon. Our mana burning skills are way too weak for any caster who's not in low greens. Can keep a OOM caster OOM, but that's all about it. Which I did in this scenario.

That happened, I was the VK, and I'm really too old to come to these boards, spread out lies & believe in the illusion a Trion employee will read them and nerf healers in tears after reading it.

It just happened. Like those 4900+3500+3500 SC hits. They can not happen in theory, in reality they happened a lot before the nerf.

BTW, nice signature!

[Xney]

VK is for purge, cleanse, and aoe silence. You can't mana drain high rank chars, or really, only dom can.

Certain mage specs have a LOT of survivability tools. Without some good burst and CC coordination, they can be impossible to kill.

Due to most damage being non-physical, it comes down to health pool, valor, damage reduction, healing, and utility/cc/survival tools. Warriors do not come out well in any area except perhaps health pools if you're not a tank spec.

[Vrab]

I like the way some think you can actually make a dent in mage's mana with vk drains.

As for rift summon, 51 vk would have to take dmg for it to refresh, if he didn't it makes sense rs wasn't of much use with 25 sec cd.

The whole story does sound a bit odd with several silences and high dmg in play but I saw high rank mages pull ridiculous stuff vs 3-4 also high rank chars already so I believe it could somehow have happened.

Thing is with most OP fotms, in both this game and others, that they will typically attract incompetent people, making their OPness less obvious in reality. But when you see someone who actually has a brain use them it can bring tears out. Same goes for rogues really. For each actually competent rogue there's a dozen marksmen who park on top of a cliff above codex, get rift walked to and torn to bits in a few seconds. But then one with a brain appears and all you can do is watch in disbelief.

[Easby]

Im assuming the "lady" was chloro/lock with nedra's essence and that 80% dmg reduction, not to mention Mortality to replensh there heal, at R8 thats a full heal if not intrupted. Ontop on ruins, natures fury on Op procs, wild growth, bloom/flourish, warlock armor, leech life (which stacks), radiant Spores, Withering Vines etc. As to the people attacking, its not a suprise they lived.

51VK= Offers no DPS, Silienced once will easily been escaped from. You will not drain sufficent mana. Also 51 VK will go power staved FAST, he wont be doing any DPS after a few swings....
Bard = Great... offers no DPS, Great for healing people tho...
2H= Why use a PVE build in PVP. Unless hes R8 and using some hybrid RW spec, this guy is offering very very low burst damage, which is what pvp dps is based around.
s&b= 51rb has a silience he can use every 8 seconds, but! 51rb is not going to offer ur amazing dps unless u have a 44dps mainhand and the stats to make it count (i.e R8 gear). anything less and this guys running the wrong spec. Id also have a guess he went power starved.
rogue = depends on rank and weapons. If hes a R5 with 29dps daggers... hes doing nothing

What you are telling us isnt out of the question. The guy is a full kitted R8 chloro, coming up against undergeared low dps builds.

[mo0trix]

All alone. I meant Chloro & something specced. Cookie cutter unkillable build.

No such thing - Unless having a cleric pocket healing is part of the build

[totinhas]

you dont need to kill the healer, just keep him busy while he waste hes time healing himself


its acctually better them wasting everyones dps on him, so he comes back in 20 secs

[Undrsiege]

Loldps................... Chloro had -15% crit......