1.7 Will make it or break it for me...

[Makexevil]

Consider this:
Mages have a Heal/DPS/Support specs ALL which are viable.
Clerics have Heal/DPS/Tank specs ALL which are viable.
Rogues have Support/DPS/Tank specs ALL which are viable.
Granted all aren't equal in terms of viability, but they are viable nonetheless.

What do warriors have?
1 DPS spec... DW and 2H essentially run the same exact spec.
1 Tank soul that is pretty much required in all tank specs.
And PvP... We're forced to spec into tank souls so we can be the least bit viable, not to mention physical damage is a joke. There's no argument that we can hit as hard as other classes because we simply don't.

Just because we're capable of filling roles doesn't mean we're not broken.

[LeCorbeau]

Question? What will happen if Trion really decide to fix a class that a lot players consider broken.

English isn't my first language. Although I think that I understand most of what is written in that language... I had the strong urge to look up what is meant by "to fix something", since you mentioned it frequently in your post . I coulnd't resist and caved in.

• (fix something up) do the necessary work to improve or adapt something:
  - "we were trying to fix up the house so that it became vaguely comfortable"
• informal, chiefly North American tidy or neaten (something, especially one’s hair, clothes, or make-up):
  - "Laura was fixing her hair"

Source

I think you meant the first definition throughout your post. Whereas it is my impression that most (good) Warriors think that the second definition of "to fix something" applies to Trion's approch "to fix" warriors for the last two or three months.

Just have a look at Wylt's Post to have an example of a warrior that is sick of band-aid fixes. Once a class is designed properly one can talk about improvements. The current situation of warriors in PvE and PvP is not very ... good. Yes, the current best PvE warrior build could be another invention of Dr. Frankenstein. But that's what RIFT is about. Creating new Builts, trying out Builds. Keeping the best possible combination of souls and discussing the macros in a 200 Pages threads in the official forums. But after using (and discussing) a build for seven Months... It might get old, even for the dumbest warrior. Some of us don't want that Raid Leaders and "self-appointed-class-ambassadors" take this build for their standard.

It may be, that that some of us want to play this game as it was advertised. I thought that you'd get the freedem of choice to play around with your build. It seemed to me that Trion wanted to put an emphasis on creating your own, I-have-fun-playing-It style with designing your build. But neither Raid leaders IG or ambassadors OG can acknowledge that, because the best warrior build is 5-20% more effective than most other builds or callings.

I'm all-In for nerfing SLI. It's the single most OP ability in RIFT, considering the time it was left unnerft. It's a hindrance for creativity in regards to builds. It's a hindrance in regards to having a balanced, competetive, fun, end-game as a Warrior.

So. Trion is still serving us Band-Aids. Have a look at the last few patchnotes. The last "Buff" was purely cosmetic and is rather perceived as draw in terms of effectiveness in PvP. (In PvE there aren't many NPCs that stip you off your buffs)

Yet it seems warrior might just bite the hand that feeds them in the end.

Well. You've described quite candidly why we shouldn't ask for a solid foundation for our class. But half a year of rogue whining was quite effective, if I think back to patch 1.5 and the resulting OPness of rogues which still, even if surpassed by Mages, prevails in PvP. But that's just from from my point of view. I'm playing in the mediocre german PvP pool as a mediocre warrior, where every other calling has to put in far less effort to be on Par or better than me.

"Und wieder einer tot!" ["Downed another one!" - Rogue WF - 22m Range]
"*gähnt*" ["*yawns*" - Heal Cleric - Melee]
"Macht mal Schaden!" ["Just do some damage!" The only Heal cleric in our 5-1 p8 warrior-cleric garden group]

"DU KRIEGST NE 1!!!!! LASSS MICH IN RUUHE!" ["You're marked! Just get off me!!!!" Kiddy Rogue in WF to me - Didn't live that long for a few times. Well. He didn't use any CCs. Just hit that damage button quite often.]


At this point I don't really care who I bite. I hope it's someone who is working next to Atrius. Perhaps someone is going to read this post and wake up Atrius or someone else at Trion Headquarters, who is responsible for our calling. Who takes the reins into his/her hands. Fixes a few things. Gives feedback. Mamtains a bug thread. Finishes & posts the warrior changes for 1.7.

Or he/she could simply just imprison Kervik at Atrius office with only the warrior forum and the warrior source code to look at, on the computer. If someone could really manage to trap him there, we could send him cookies, beer and hold polls on which he calling he should focus next.

I want to have fun, a class with no obvious bugs and well designed, balanced classes.

Edit: Just a few gender generalisations... Beer and Spelling mistakes.

[Nefelia]

It seems to me that talk of warriors being broken comes from those who played warriors a long time ago, when they were obviously overpowered. As a new player (been playing since October 2011), I don't hold the same biases and baggage.

I leveled a mage to 50, had a blast at EI, started raiding t1s and t2s, and on a whim decided to level a warrior as a side project. I haven't played my mage since, and have shelved her indefinitely.

I did not twink my warrior at all, aside from sending a few silkspun bags over via mail, and I have found the warrior to be quite powerful in all regards.

In PvE, the warrior really outperforms my mage. I can collect groups of 6+ equal leveled mobs and survive the beating while whittling them down with sustained AoE damage. My mage could barely handle 3 unless I pigeon-holed myself to the Elementalist build. If I happen to find myself in an 'oh ****' situation, my warrior ca cast Touch of Life and run. A mage, with low hp and cloth armour, has a much worse chance of getting to safety.

In lvl 50 PvP I find it very difficult to kill anyone, but I more than make up for it by using mass silence, root, Spotter's Order, rift summon, stuns, and knockback to take people out of the fight and shape the course of the battle. If you simply must rack up killing blows, the warrior is not currentlyfor you (it needs to be fixed to provide that option). If you are primarily concerned with being a productive member of your team and having fun, the Warrior has much to offer you.

The only real complaint warriors have is regarding the lack of pure DPS builds in PvP. Perhaps slotting in speed/mobility boosts as well as better burst damage high into the DPS trees will allow warriors to close with the enemy quickly, have a decent shot of killing him, and then getting out quickly. This is the only solution I can think of that will allow the warrior to compete with other DPS classes without being overpowered.

Edit: How many warriors have actually rolled other classes? The fact that so many warriors believe they compare poorly in PvE leads me to believe that few have actually ventured outside their class to see just how good Warriors have it in PvE.

[LeCorbeau]

Edit: How many warriors have actually rolled other classes? The fact that so many warriors believe they compare poorly in PvE leads me to believe that few have actually ventured outside their class to see just how good Warriors have it in PvE.

Nobody said that warriors are bad or not viable in PvE. It's just that there is a DPS build, invented at least six months ago, which vastly outperforms every other possible build.

[Rakkasa]

Skyrim is fun...

I'm tired of waiting for the fixes too and it has just gotten old being entirely dependent on a pocket healer. 1.7 as advertised was it for me.

I'm gonna sit out six months or so and see what happens.

See you all again in 2.8?, had a really good time for the most part.

[youkiddingme]

Sorry LeCorbeau fix is a American southern term to repair or modify something. It funny how slang for some people have a different meaning for others. Yet, it happens. Still thank you for some else perception of words.

Now to address warriors I just don’t want to see a repeat of the last complaints on warriors builds. The end results were very bad for warriors as they went from 4 very viable builds to just one. That just went from mind numbing to boring fast. Please do not think the patch for rogue was any kind of fix. The end results for rogues were a loss of about 320 dps on a average after the patch. How a patch that was supposed to increase dps, instead caused a loss is why I say beware of what a person ask for.

The worst aspect of about this game is that no matter what a gamer is stuck in specific roles if they only want to be top dps. Is not matter what class a person plays? They are pretty much stuck with one or at best two viable builds. The only one with two that I am aware of is in the mage tree with sc and pyro builds.

Rogues used to have 3 competitive builds and then patch 1.5 came along and pretty much ruined that for rogues. If not seeing a pattern. It’s really simple. If there a patch that says they are going to fix something. A safe bet its going to hurt the class more than help. That why warriors are now stuck with one tank builds now after last patch. Sorry but reaver was always annoying build and now it’s the one go to build. Thus, it’s a safe bet if it says it’s a fix, it’s more like a nerf in the end.

Now if a player wants to play a different role and take a dps loss all classes do have one to four dps builds. It just they will not be at the top of dps chart. That is what drives a lot of players. It this dps drive in pvp and burst dps is necessary for melee classes to close in on a range classes. As once the gap is closed. Any melee needs to have a high burst to at least get the other player down to 50%.

But warriors using tank taunts were doing that and more. This cherry picking had resulted in the nerf that hurt warrior pve tanks and Trion redoing tanks due to that fix. It’s this pattern of Trion trying to stoop op builds with nerfs and modification to the class. That in the end results in players force into some boring and repetitive role if they want to be top dps only.

It is interesting how this wanting to be the best mentality of some players. That is if they forget that there are some really good builds. Then if they take the time and energy to find a build that works best for them for pve. PVP is anther matter and there are only three builds I know of for warrior that works. They all pretty much suck for what today players call burst till rank 6. Then it starts to level out.

That leads to this final point. There is really no way to get around the fact. That the constant nerfs to certain parts of the warrior soul tree. Have resulted in some very unusually side effects for warriors. That warrior for most part needs to be fixed on the bad parts and undue some of the nerfs. Yet, that brings warrior back to the core problem.

They were just too powerful in the beginning. It got boring killing several players at once in less than 30 seconds. That OP made Trion looks at and adjusts warrior dps. Thus in the long run just made it worse and is how warrior got to this point in first place. Warrior need to be fixed in minor ways in the tree itself so that all abilities are even and not this week one and op ones on each level. That result in op builds due to cherry picking by players.

Now a personal opinion: If a person starts to pay attention and start seeing a pattern here in this game o patches and how they have a chain effect reaction on the game as a whole.. Is that when a programmer changes one aspect it has either positive or negative aspect on other part of the program. It really not the programmer faults in the long run as they are trying to make you and other players happy with their product. They are pretty much trying to fix a one aspect to bring players in line with what they have in mind for the game. Yet these ripple effects still mess up other aspect of the game with some new bug to fix. Hence the warrior tank fix patch. The end results are that the programmers have to step back and really look at the data and decide how to stop the ripples. That to me spells time, energy and money. That is why it would seem best if player actual start showing the broken aspect and not just complain about something. That way once a fix does come in it’s not a dps loss but either a gain or at least a break even with more viable builds. Thus, that my take from seeing and playing all four classes and how patch effect them individually.

[Hellebron]

Reaver may be required in most tank builds currently, but to say there is only one tank build currently is really incorrect. War has a lot of diversity with tank speccing currently.

[Sebb]

Reaver may be required in most tank builds currently, but to say there is only one tank build currently is really incorrect. War has a lot of diversity with tank speccing currently.

I wouldn't say that really. About 54 of the points are required spending, you can flex around the other 12 how you see fit. Personally I do some 44 PL every now and then just to have a cool down because otherwise I get bored.

[Nefelia]

I wouldn't say that really. About 54 of the points are required spending, you can flex around the other 12 how you see fit. Personally I do some 44 PL every now and then just to have a cool down because otherwise I get bored.

This applies to min/max player only. Creating perfect balance between classes and souls is impossible, and min/max players will always be chasing the FotM. The best Trion can do is make all souls viable and attractive to the majority of players, and let the min/max players limit their play options as they see fit.

Not to say that Trion should not work towards fine balance once the white elephants (BM, for instance) are taken care of, but no one is being forced to spend points in a certain way for tanking. In fact, with all the talk of Warrior tanks being overpowered, I'd think warriors would be enjoying more flexibility now.

[Tufelhunden]

Reaver may be required in most tank builds currently, but to say there is only one tank build currently is really incorrect. War has a lot of diversity with tank speccing currently.

True. I run a reaver build because I pug and you never know how the healer will be. Last night I had a healer put out a whopping 300HPS in a T2 5 man. Got on my level 40 warrior and had a level 43 healer hitting 250HPS. Anyway, the point is with a good healer I can choose one of the "lesser" tanking souls that is more fun.

[intrinsc]

True. I run a reaver build because I pug and you never know how the healer will be. Last night I had a healer put out a whopping 300HPS in a T2 5 man. Got on my level 40 warrior and had a level 43 healer hitting 250HPS. Anyway, the point is with a good healer I can choose one of the "lesser" tanking souls that is more fun.

I only do 250hps on my cleric when I solo heal the tank on LGS, but he never goes down below 80%. I wonder what I do different