Crit vs Strength/AP, I'm at a loss...

[shep123]

Title says it all. I thought crit was the most important stat to our class right now in PvP, so I maxed it out. I wear leather shoulders and boots, and rogue rings (all p8). I am crit capped at 40.15% with 36hit and only 736ap.

I understand their are talents in other trees that reduce chance to crit, but I never feel like I'm critting as often as I should. When I go toe to toe with other warriors with less than 30% crit in a DPS race I consistently lose (running variations of rb/ch, rb/rv/ch, rv/ch/pal, etc...) I know they are not specced into vindicator crit enough and hit harder. This is vs S&B and 2H (with me 2Hing). When I switch to S&B it gets worse.

Am I going about this all wrong for PvP? Should I work to get my AP up to 890 sacrificing 10% crit? I thought it was a busted stat...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Fearitself]

Title says it all. I thought crit was the most important stat to our class right now in PvP, so I maxed it out. I wear leather shoulders and boots, and rogue rings (all p8). I am crit capped at 40.15% with 36hit and only 736ap.

I understand their are talents in other trees that reduce chance to crit, but I never feel like I'm critting as often as I should. When I go toe to toe with other warriors with less than 30% crit in a DPS race I consistently lose (running variations of rb/ch, rb/rv/ch, rv/ch/pal, etc...) I know they are not specced into vindicator crit enough and hit harder. This is vs S&B and 2H (with me 2Hing). When I switch to S&B it gets worse.

Am I going about this all wrong for PvP? Should I work to get my AP up to 890 sacrificing 10% crit? I thought it was a busted stat...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Basically another issue trion should deal with because the only spec that actually scales with attack power is 51 RB which is a **** pve dps. Basically war is pretty much all weapon damage which is stupid as hell since you only receive half a crit for 1 dexterity but we're forced to do it. Basically get a lot of crit and a 55 dps wep and thats about it.

[Fearitself]

Also when you use leather you lose a lot of physical mitigation so youre going toget hit a lot harder if youre running leather pieces vs plate

[Fearitself]

And wow I just re read the post and realized you went all leather. That's why warriors are crushing you. They have a lot more armor than you

[Fearitself]

And wow I just re read the post and realized you went all leather. That's why warriors are crushing you. They have a lot more armor than you

Actually sorry I'm sooo put out of it today. You need more hit. 36 hit = terrible you will be dodged parried blocked all the time. Hit rune helmet legs guns and 2h and if possible switch out an accessorie for a good hit one of possible if you don't have good hit weapons. Hit = very
important

[shep123]

Slow down man... I wear TWO pieces of leather which means I lose somewhere in the neighborhood of 1k armor? Not a big deal. However, I didn't mention that my valor is only 984 and vengeance at 75. Dueling an equally geared warrior running some 51rb/15pal my parser logged 0 misses and we both hovered between 5-6 parry/dodge.

I guess I'm looking for a bit more detailed insight here. I carry a p8 2-hander and get lit up by other 2H or S&B.

[Shadowprison]

Just to give you a foothold to compare your AP scaling to rogues:

Just curious how well it actually scales.

80 AP increase with savage strike (100% scaling) = 11 more damage = 0.1375 Damage/AP

80 AP increase with Backstab (250% scaling) = 29 more damage = 0.145 Damage/AP


Obviously its not an exact number, but IMO it shows just how bad AP scales.

Difference between 0 AP savage strike and 1200 AP savage strike is only 160-170 damage. That seems extremely poor.

I can only imagine its worse for warriors.

[Fearitself]

And wow I just re read the post and realized you went all leather. That's why warriors are crushing you. They have a lot more armor than you

Just to give you a foothold to compare your AP scaling to rogues:



I can only imagine its worse for warriors.

Yeah I fixed my statement. Like i said I guarantee it's your hit. You need to switch out runes and other pieces and yea AP only scales with one tree for wars. 51 rb. That's it

[Ahov]

Just to give you a foothold to compare your AP scaling to rogues:



I can only imagine its worse for warriors.

1 AP is better than 1 crit. Itemization just doesn't offer us this choice. It offers us 2 crit vs 1 AP usually, so the crit wins out.

[Healz]

get crit till ur 1173 crit rating raid buffed then stack ap (Not that AP really helps) I think from around 900AP
my RW's hit for around 150 more i cant remember exact numbers but i did test it one time and it really is a shame .

[Xney]

What spec are you running that you lose to 51RB to? I never lose to them.

[Kharis]

Maxing Crit like that is a PvE tactic to Min/Max dmg when you're not actively being hit.

also 1v1 vs Warrior =/= 1v1 vs Rogue =/= 1v1 vs mage, and you need to approach each fight differently.

Specifically vs warrior, however, you are probably killing yourself with high crit vs their Burning Blood.

[RagingT]

not to mention as S&B you need strength, which is a hybrid defensive/offensive stat (even though way better at defense) since you want to block a lot.

and AP shouldn't really be linear if it were to be scaling properly.

[shep123]

Any of my comments are specifically in regards to PvP and not PvE. To rephrase my original post, I'm wondering if it is better to start stacking str/ap instead of crit BEFORE you are crit capped.

What spec are you running that you lose to 51RB to? I never lose to them.

I Know D: I feel like uninstalling when I lose to this build. I was running 38/28 and another gimmicky physical dmg build I'm toying with that is rv/ch/pal (probably the worst against plate so I understand why it would lose) I thought the old bread and butter would be just fine though.

Specifically vs warrior, however, you are probably killing yourself with high crit vs their Burning Blood.

I realized this last night after looking at some pie graphs of where the dmg was coming from. There were several instances where burning blood was the top incoming dmg source.

[Soulsurfing]

Any of my comments are specifically in regards to PvP and not PvE. To rephrase my original post, I'm wondering if it is better to start stacking str/ap instead of crit BEFORE you are crit capped.

the only spec this would even be a question worth pondering would be 51 rb. and idk the answer to that, i tried 51rb but didn't stick with it.

crit is very important in pvp for a number of reasons;
1. burst damage
2. it fuels your power generation
3. proc's lingering wounds (if you have it)

that said i do not wear leather in pvp, because while most warrior builds are RB centric, and the enemies we face also mostly use elemental damage, there are other gimmick and add-on abilities people might use like 35% bladefury, frenzied strike, sweeping strikes, all of which will hit harder without plate. not to mention, who knows if trion will eventually nerf wars wearing leather, so i don't want to waste pvp favor to buy leather rogue gear. i'm sure some people choose to wear leather, i just stay away from it now.

str is an important stat for wars also in pvp because it ups your block ability, and most wars have at least 8-12 points in a tank soul, be it vk for purge, or paladin for touch of life/sweeping strikes. since it also doubles as an ap booster, i go for str as well.

so what i do is i go for max crit but i don't make sacrifices to get it. in other words i'm not gonna lose out on a ton of end, str, or anything else i need just to gain a little bit of crit.

in PVE, yes, you would sacrifice ALL to get to crit cap, then go ap. but you have a tank in PVE, who soaks up all the damage. no such thing in pvp, you have to be able to survive also. therefore you should take a best in slot approach to things.