Feedback for PVP Physical DPS issues and Power Starvation concerns

[K_osss]

Atrius,
I appreciate the work you've put into helping solve the power starvation concerns! It'll be awesome to not rely on a broken ability anymore !
While I'd rather have the pvp dps changes sooner than later I understand this isn't a simple issue and I'm hopeful that given the extra time you will have the time you need to fix this issue more completely.

My 2 cents is that with the addition of valor (which is a great way of making the fights not last 3 seconds) healing's effectiveness has been increased. To my knowledge healing is not reduced by valor in any significant way. With damage heavily reduced due to valor this makes the effectiveness of healing much more pronounced.

There also seems to be some issues with the way finishers aren't hitting as hard as they "should" (I think they should). This isn't just in pvp, across the board.

[Drude]

Unfortunately at this time, due to other variables we cannot just rollback the changes in 1.4. We are making sure the changes we do make resolve the problem as well as several other problems we have been looking into. As with the current tanking changes I will be putting up threads and asking for constant feedback for the PVP changes when we get closer to the point where they are ready for the PTS.

Another game of pin the tail on the class? Be sure and spin around 6 times and THEN pick what you are going to fix.

[Ransac]

We are making sure the changes we do make resolve the problem as well as several other problems we have been looking into. As with the current tanking changes I will be putting up threads and asking for constant feedback for the PVP changes when we get closer to the point where they are ready for the PTS.

Isnt this the same shpeal we hear every patch? "We are going to fix all your issues in one patch". The the next patch comes along, and nothing but posts like above..

Heres a pro tip.. Its better to give your dying customers small anecdotes along the way, so they are around long enough to see this magical "cure all"..

[Shockakhan]

Unfortunately at this time, due to other variables we cannot just rollback the changes in 1.4. We are making sure the changes we do make resolve the problem as well as several other problems we have been looking into. As with the current tanking changes I will be putting up threads and asking for constant feedback for the PVP changes when we get closer to the point where they are ready for the PTS.

It's fine. I hit P8 a month ago. And we're still doing HK content... that should hold me over for the next 1 1/2 months...

[Rizaz]

Why can't I click on page 58 in this thread?

[intrinsc]

Isnt this the same shpeal we hear every patch? "We are going to fix all your issues in one patch". The the next patch comes along, and nothing but posts like above..

Heres a pro tip.. Its better to give your dying customers small anecdotes along the way, so they are around long enough to see this magical "cure all"..

And you know this because you are a successful business owner or, according to your past sentence, a world class physician?

[Havors]

Lets hope we still have warriors around when this "fix" finally comes to fruition....

How about an update on the only aspect of DPS you stated you "were working on"? That being energy regen..

Im failing to see what will be that much different with power in 1.6. They fixed the RB ability but the RW didnt even use it anyway and power wasnt much of a problem. Power needs a little tweek but its not the game breaker that every other problem with the warrior is.

The whole class need a complete revamp. New souls, abilities, stat calcs, the works!

[Soulsurfing]

Unfortunately at this time, due to other variables we cannot just rollback the changes in 1.4. We are making sure the changes we do make resolve the problem as well as several other problems we have been looking into. As with the current tanking changes I will be putting up threads and asking for constant feedback for the PVP changes when we get closer to the point where they are ready for the PTS.

Maybe listening to forum complaints and posting half baked design changes isn't the way to go about things. I realize this sounds harsh but what makes Rift great is also what makes it horrible. I appreciate all the quick bug fixes and content pushes. But when you approach PVP viability and balance you REALLY need to sit down and consider things. You do not want to just make changes live without playtesting them first. I feel as if 1.4.5 Trion didn't know what to do with warriors so they just decided Hey, lets just nerf a few random things. Later on you boiled the problem down to our OGCD's and Bloodthirst. That kind of research is what is needed on the first pass, not just random things because you're reading forum complaints. Forum complaints by trolls, haters, and low ranks who died in a warfront who saw a warrior beating on them - but failed to notice the assassin behind them, the pocket healer, and mage, all unloading.

[Soulsurfing]

I have finished a pass on Power changes for the PTS, you should see them soon.

I am also very excited to see the power changes. The power changes will help both dps and PVP warriors. That's a good change to make when you can kill two birds with one stone.

I also wanted to address the concern that we are just pigeonholing the Warrior soul into tanking. This is not true, and we will continue balancing and tweaking where necessary to make sure that the soul is viable in DPS as well as tanking.

Atrius, did you guys notice all warriors can do is tank and dps?

Rogues can: Tank, Range DPS (4k parse on sicaron posted), Melee dps, Support with bard buff/heal
Clerics can: Tank, Range dps, melee dps, main tank heal, aoe heal
Mages can: Range DPS, Heal, Support

Warriors can: Tank and DPS

Does Trion have any explanation for why warriors are so limited in design? And why all the other classes can contribute so many different ways?

I'm all for buffing rogue tanks. Keep in mind the more you buff Riftstalker, given the versitility of the class, you diminish the needs for warriors. You either need to keep warriors #1 so they are in demand for tanking and DPS, or you need to offer alternative roles to us too.

You're worried about pigeonholing us, but you've been pigeonholing us since the game's release. Tank and DPS, that's what we do. It's ALL we can do.

One last thing, please keep all riftstalker buffs HIGH in the tree, so true rogue tanks get the love, but the PVP overpowered guys do not.

[MrFunsocks]

You either need to keep warriors #1 so they are in demand for tanking and DPS, or you need to offer alternative roles to us too.

I'm friggen SICK of this false dichotomy. NO THEY DON'T. You don't have to be #1 at something to be in demand. They do, however, have to keep warrior tanks more VERSATILE than rogue tanks, and useful in situations rogue/cleric tanks aren't. Having higher AoE threat is a great example of the versatility they're giving warrior tanks.

[herlpderp]

I'm friggen SICK of this false dichotomy. NO THEY DON'T. You don't have to be #1 at something to be in demand. They do, however, have to keep warrior tanks more VERSATILE than rogue tanks, and useful in situations rogue/cleric tanks aren't. Having higher AoE threat is a great example of the versatility they're giving warrior tanks.

Plz go. No one here cares about tanking.

[intrinsc]

Keep the tanking concerns to the tanking thread.

[Ransac]

And you know this because you are a successful business owner or, according to your past sentence, a world class physician?

Yes I am, you can call me Dr from now on.

[Soulsurfing]

I'm friggen SICK of this false dichotomy. NO THEY DON'T. You don't have to be #1 at something to be in demand. They do, however, have to keep warrior tanks more VERSATILE than rogue tanks, and useful in situations rogue/cleric tanks aren't. Having higher AoE threat is a great example of the versatility they're giving warrior tanks.

You're sick of logic? Your problem not ours.

Raid competition has shown us time and time again that raid leaders choose and bring the best people for the slots.

Keep the tanking concerns to the tanking thread.

This is not only a tanking concern it is a class concern - which includes dps, the subject of this thread. It was prompted by Atrius' comment, in this thread, about pigeonholing.

[Wreks]

Unfortunately at this time, due to other variables we cannot just rollback the changes in 1.4. We are making sure the changes we do make resolve the problem as well as several other problems we have been looking into. As with the current tanking changes I will be putting up threads and asking for constant feedback for the PVP changes when we get closer to the point where they are ready for the PTS.

By other variables do you mean rogues somehow still crying while being the best pvp class and pve class?

Man up, crunch some numbers, adjust accordingly.

Post the results so people cant make up imaginary QQ.
Example: Clerics do xx dps on our pvp dummy, rogues do xx dps on our pvp dummy, warriors do xx dps on our pvp dummy, mages do xx dps on our pvp dummy. Clerics do xx% less because they can heal, range does xx% dps less because they do it at range.

SOME LOGIC AND TRANSPARENCY WOULD GO A LONG WAY

Why is this not done? Is it really that flipping hard to make this at least somewhat close?