Dex>Str Proof? - For the benefit of peace & quiet on our guild forum.

[Dollwin]

I think you are either:

A) Not using PotW/RW enough

or

B) Think Strike to Maim contributes more than about 15% of your damage.

Additionally, if your argument is that a talent is more powerful than baseline scaling, then explain why the top damage build isn't Paragon/Beast Master/Void Knight since you get 50% more strength there?

What he is saying that strength is better than dex, IF you get the same amount of crit from flat crit bonuses, rather than just dex. I'm not sure if explained it well enough. But essentially, crit is still better than ap, but str is better than dex on the basis that having more dex means nothing to abilities like StM or talents like Titan's Strength. So if you had the choice of an equal total crit and ap on an item, but one used str to get the ap, then that item would be better. Make sense?

[Cormyat]

that's failure. it's up to the rogue or warrior to know what is BiS and if it is, to roll on it/spend dkp on it. if an item is BiS and a raid leader wont let them roll, that is a terrible raid leader.

That's actually a great raid leader, because he can ignore his e-peening warriors who can do just fine with their itemized plate gear, in favor of the calling that has no other choices but leather.

Warriors don't need leather gear to perform at +/- 5% of their max potential. Rogues do. End of story.

Try applying to a top progression guild and tell them you plan on bidding on leather gear. No, really. Go for it. They might actually even say "yes" if they've had GSB on farm so long that all their rogues are runebreaking T3 drops.

[Valarion]

There was a hardcore thread on this topic ages ago and all the math was provided. It actually analyzed the stats for spell casters specifically, but the skill-based equation was the same for all non-caster based classes as well (I believe).

Roughly:
1 point of Attack Power = 1.4 Dex = 2 Str = 2.439 Phys Crit

In case you are having difficulty understanding, this means that it takes 2 points of strength to equal just 1.4 points of dex as far as damage is concerned. So Dex is better than Str, but this is before factoring in class specific abilities. For example, abilities, such as the Champion's increased strength % was not calculated.

Looking at this another way:

1 AP > 1 Dex > 1 Str > 1 Crit point

before class specific abilities of course

[Rizaz]

There was a hardcore thread on this topic ages ago and all the math was provided. It actually analyzed the stats for spell casters specifically, but the skill-based equation was the same for all non-caster based classes as well (I believe).

Roughly:
1 point of Attack Power = 2 Str = 1.4 Dex = 2.439 Phys Crit

In case you are having difficulty understanding, this means that it takes 2 points of strength to equal just 1.4 points of dex as far as damage is concerned. So Dex is better than Str, but this is before factoring in class specific abilities. For example, abilities, such as the Champion's increased strength % was not calculated.

More importantly, this meant that AP was also more powerful than Crit (point for point).

That sounds like a rogue calculation. Because for warriors 2 str will give 1.5 AP and by definition be > 1 AP.

[Valarion]

That sounds like a rogue calculation. Because for warriors 2 str will give 1.5 AP and by definition be > 1 AP.

Yeah it may have been, the original thread was essentially a debate around AP/SP vs Pys/Spell Crit, not so much Str vs Dex.

If warrior gets more AP from str, then str is much closer to dex (but still not convincing superior). They are about equal (according to the math anyway).

[batou079]

That sounds like a rogue calculation. Because for warriors 2 str will give 1.5 AP and by definition be > 1 AP.

hmm i always thought it was proven that the STR/AP mechanics were still borked in this game...
this was the #1 reason that warriors had started rolling on dex/crit leather gear because the issue began to be more widely known.

Since my main role is tank for the guild, i cant roll for offspec dps gear in raids.
But in my own T2 runs, ill roll for my offspec if any rogues dont need the drop.
So i still roll for dex/crit gear ahead of AP/Str gear.

Until someone can show simple parsing results as proof, ill stick to what my experience has told me.
Id think if a person can scrap together a couple gear sets that boost stats equally crit/dex VS ap/str, and parse on both sets... that'd be a big leap beyond simple theory crafting. :UP: