No Assassin love?

[Emanresu]

I think, a problem with Assassin is it has a fair few of it's talents based around it's stealth openers (or buffing it's damage after using a stealth opener) but outside of Slip Away every two minutes no real way to utilize these in PvE.

I mention this a while ago but I wonder if giving Assassin a cooldown ability near the end of the roots that would tempoarily allow it to use those stealth attacks outside of stealth. It might be a way to bring those abilities into it's PvE game. Problem being it could be potentially overpowering in PvP (I don't PvP so guess I can't really say either way there. Heh.)

(46pts) Blindside - The Rogue may use abilities that would normally require the Rogue to be stealthed. Lasts for 5 seconds or three uses of Stealth abilities. xx second cooldown.

The idea being that every so often the Assassin could burst a combo of Jagged Strike>Assassinate>Assassinate and give itself the Cloak and Dagger buff for some extra DPS.

The Assassin is the only role in the entire game that requires positional attacks. Backstab can only be used from behind the enemy and to get the full damage out of other builders and finishers, you must also attack from behind your target, at melee range. I'm completely fine with that, I'm completely used to playing that way (in other games attacking from behind was not only a requirement for some rogue abilities, it also prevented your target from dodging you). The problem is, in my opinion, there needs to more of reward for forcing someone to have to use positional attacks.

[Kyera]

I do think something like that would be useful for PvE as well as giving a little more depth to a deep-Sin rogue. In warfront/group situations you've pretty much got to leave combat in order to restealth. Part of me kind of likes ghetto Warhammer stealth, which had a cast time and could be used in combat (but not while being attacked) when your 'cooldown' timer expired.

Perhaps something like (and I'm just throwing some ideas out, so don't jump all over me here).

a) Stealth has a 2s cast time, usable in combat; if out of combat, stealth becomes instant cast.
b) Stealth's cast time is automatically interrupted by any 'active' damage effect (e.g. any 'new' damage ticks, but not by bleeds/DoTs applied before the cast began).
c) Stealth is not broken by lingering bleeds or DoT effects (okay, maybe for the first [x?] seconds).
d) If in combat when stealth is successfully cast, Stealth lasts 30s. If out of combat when stealth is successfully cast, Stealth lasts 30s (or is indefinite with the talent).
e) If in combat, stealth drops w/ a 30s cooldown; if out of combat, stealth drops w/ a 10s cooldown.
f) Slip Away is changed to fill a second-strike, offensive role.

[Shyessa]

No bard love since launch.

[Durango]

I do think something like that would be useful for PvE as well as giving a little more depth to a deep-Sin rogue. In warfront/group situations you've pretty much got to leave combat in order to restealth. Part of me kind of likes ghetto Warhammer stealth, which had a cast time and could be used in combat (but not while being attacked) when your 'cooldown' timer expired.

Perhaps something like (and I'm just throwing some ideas out, so don't jump all over me here).

a) Stealth has a 2s cast time, usable in combat; if out of combat, stealth becomes instant cast.
b) Stealth's cast time is automatically interrupted by any 'active' damage effect (e.g. any 'new' damage ticks, but not by bleeds/DoTs applied before the cast began).
c) Stealth is not broken by lingering bleeds or DoT effects (okay, maybe for the first [x?] seconds).
d) If in combat when stealth is successfully cast, Stealth lasts 30s. If out of combat when stealth is successfully cast, Stealth lasts 30s (or is indefinite with the talent).
e) If in combat, stealth drops w/ a 30s cooldown; if out of combat, stealth drops w/ a 10s cooldown.
f) Slip Away is changed to fill a second-strike, offensive role.

Meh...

Distracting Strike: Same damage as BS, 15-30s CD. Puts a 3-5s buff on youself, removed on damage, when the buff expires, puts you into a semi-stealth state for 10s allowing the use of stealth abilities, any ability that would remove stealth removes the semi-stealth state.

[Kyera]

So, really, it's just wanting an ability that allows you to pop Assassinate/Jagged Strike, and doesn't actually give you any of the potential tactical (e.g. PvP) benefits of stealth?

I'm trying to figure out the direction to take with suggestions, here.

[Durango]

So, really, it's just wanting an ability that allows you to pop Assassinate/Jagged Strike, and doesn't actually give you any of the potential tactical (e.g. PvP) benefits of stealth?

Basically, yes. So much of the points in Sin are around abilities than can be used currently roughly every 2 minutes. Sin really needs a way to utilize the stealth abilities without making them completely OP within PvP. AKA, the mechanism should only be viable in PvP if they are actively ignoring you. Hence my suggestion for an ability that has a time to activate.

[Kyera]

Basically, yes. So much of the points in Sin are around abilities than can be used currently roughly every 2 minutes. Sin really needs a way to utilize the stealth abilities without making them completely OP within PvP. AKA, the mechanism should only be viable in PvP if they are actively ignoring you. Hence my suggestion for an ability that has a time to activate.

Fair enough. A 'blind side'-type ability as proposed is clearly the best fit for this goal.

[Driften]

Well here are my two cents...

First off I have been running a melee assassin build since beta. After launch with the poor state of melee rogues I left the game. Three months ago I can back and starting playing melee again. These are the problems I'm running into.

Spec 40sin/18rs/8mm
Full HK gear and maxed dps sigil/ sin crystal

First off openers compared to all other dmg is crap. When running for two mins on the dummy (opening and closing), jagged strike which does the most opener dmg only accounts for 1-2% of my dmg. Granted I can slip away and reopen every two mins it really doesn't amount to much.

2nd serrated blades and impale seem to do the most dmg which is fine however both poisons on my weps only account for 14% (7% or less a peice) I have changed specs around and there is only a 3% dmg increase to poisons if u max out poison skills which just means u wasted 5 points for 3% dmg. Lame

Coming down to it for someone to do max dps in blood stalker you have to throw hidden veil and silent footsteps out the window (kinda defeats the purpose of playing an assassin, might as well go night blade at this point) and be on top of a complex sensitive rotation

As for "blood stalker rotation" I find that the 20 points for shadow blitz is useless. One you don't want to generate hate, two its an AOE on a ST build and three I actually lost dps on the dummy trying to incorporate it in my rotation just to get the 10 sec dmg increase. So that's why I threw it out.

-Now comparing this to the recent updates.

Running with my guild group 51 champ with riftblade obviously out dps me on AOE. I'm fine with that. The problem is they about match my dps on ST with a three button macro. As for the current 51 ranger build and crystal with pet alive do about the same st DPS as my blood stalker since 1.8. I do more if it is a straight burn however with Trion's philosophy on non-melee friendly fights being 8/10 range attacks end up dealing more. However with this still going I still see 51 champ at the top of the dps list out dpsing most mages.

So one of the biggest problems I'm seeing is for melee vs melee rogues don't gain any benefit for having lower armor.

Second Assassin's only rank high dps depending on there position. Again warriors, MM, rangers don't have to always be on the backside. Sin's loose alot of dps if they have to hit from the front.

Third outside of dots and stealth sin's have nothing to give to a raid but dps (which is on = with warriors) However warriors also have interrupts. I can understand a 2h war having a stunning blow. But you would think lacking the armor and having to base a battle more off utility and brains an assassin would be able to interrupt or purge a buff off an enemy. No such luck. Assassin's only get foul play which stuns someone for 4 secs which does interrupt "ONLY" if the the mob is susceptible to a stun. Blinding powder is totally useless all around. When was the last time you seen a hk boss susceptible to a stun... To make it any better you only get an interrupt in melee on rogue if u spec 22 points into RS which would just totally nerf your dmg.

I don't like the idea of total 51 builds do to this is "rift" and theory-crafting is suppose to benefit you. However it doesn't help assassin at all. Compared to other classes like 51 champ, ranger, bard, chloro, sabo these pure builds out-weight any combo building. They actually have skills they greatly benefit you at 51. However for sins the 44 poison gas is a great utility for solo. It should actually take the place of blinding powder since that skill is a joke, but instead it is 44 points into the tree. From 44-51 there is nothing for sin's and serpent strike is great on paper but sucks dps wise in comparison then taking the points and putting it into MM (a ranged class mind you for armor pen and st incr) I'm all for theory-crafting however the best theory crafting builds for sin are on mark with other class 51 builds. kinda lame.

Solution: I say just increase the dmg via positioning and give them a purge or interrupt. At least an assassin can help tare down a boss rather then just flashing. I don't care much if a skill is given to cast an opener without stealth but maybe dropping slip away's cd down to 1.5 mins or even placing that in as a greater essence or crystal buff. Also maybe increasing the dmg off the backstab essence would be nice since in seems almost useless being that BS has a cd and other essences seem to give more dmg in for the form of over zealous ap buff *cough ranger cough*

[rennlc]

Sin/RS with hk 4pc can beat most classes. Sin just does very little DPS without hk 4pc and takes very little damage without subspeccing RS.