If Rogues got a new Soul - what should it be?

[Chaszar]

sounds like you need to go back to eq1 mr feign death.

Only played an Enchanter there for 6 years

[Anthony01]

Something I put together in an hour or so. My guild mate inspired me to this idea.

Rogue
Alchemist
Healer

Introducing the Alchemist. The Alchemist is the exclusive healing soul for the Rogue calling. The Alchemist is a powerful healer than excels in raid healing. They complete this task by using “Mist” abilities, “Field” abilities, and “Elixirs”. Mist abilities are buffs that the Alchemist use on themselves, and will linger for 10-15 seconds after a new mist is activated. An Alchemist must wait a small amount of time before another Mist can be activated after using a new one. All Mist share a common cooldown. Field abilities are GTAOE abilities that the Alchemist place to provide some of the most potent AoE healing in the game. With no limit on the amount of targets a Field ability can hit, they can prove to bring an entire raid from the brink of death with just the right placement of their field spells. “Elixirs” are abilities that the Alchemist choose to coat their weapons in. Much like poisons or munitions, Elixirs activate upon striking the enemy and can only have two active at a time. These can range from heals to debuffs.

Alchemist abilities can be used from both ranged and melee distance. Both will do around the same damage, it’s just a preference on where you wish to stand. All abilities can be used from a 0-30 meter range.

So my vision with this soul is an “aura” healer. The Mist are all off the GCD and are meant to be cycled through for maximum effect.

Root Abilities

0- Soothing Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that heals 5 members in range for X. Last 1 hour. Will only activate once on area of effect abilities. Only two weapon enchantments can be active at once.
0- Glancing Blow: Deals 50% weapon damage plus X to X Water damage. Awards 1 Combo point.
2- Potent Burst: Deals 50% of weapon damage plus an additional Water damage for each Combo point.
4- Calming Mist: Heals raid or party members in range for X to X every 2 seconds. This effect last for 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range)
6- Empowering Potion: The target ally incoming healing is increased by 5%. Last 1 hour.
8- Distilled Toxin: Cleanses 1 poison, 1 disease, or 1 curse from the target ally.
10- Healing Field. Heals all allies in target area for X to X. 10 second recast.
12- Nerve Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that snares enemy targets for 50%. Last 1 hour. Only two weapon enchantments can be active at once.
14- Forbidden Toxin: Brings a fallen ally back to life, restoring 20% mana and health. 12 second cast. Can be used in combat.
16-Relaxing Mist: Cleanses 1 poison, 1 disease, or 1 curse every 4 seconds from raid or party members in range. This effect last for 10 seconds after you another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range)
18-Alchemic Intervention: Sacrifices 50% of the Rogues HP to fully heal one target ally. 2 minute cooldown.
20- Invigorating Potion: Increasing incoming healing by 5% to all party or raid members. Last 1 hour.
20- High-potency Strike: Deals 50% weapon damage plus an additional heal to allies within range for each Combo point.
26- Revitalizing Serum: Heals 10 allies in the area for 400% of weapon damage plus X to X. Grants 2 Combo points. 10 Second cooldown.
32- Glowing Field: Cleanses all diseases, curse, and poisons in the target area for all allies in range. For each one removed, allies are healed for X. 1 minute cooldown.
38-Rejuvenating Mist: Restores 1 Charge, 20 Mana, 1 Energy, and 1 Power every 2 seconds to raid or party members in range. This effect last for 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range)
44- Mysterious Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that causes the enemy to lose a buff, or causes a random raid or party member to lose 1 curse, disease, or poison.
51- Terrestrial Field: Allies’ HP in the target area cannot fall below 1 for 5 seconds. 2 minute recast.

Branch Abilities.
Tier 1-(0-5 Points)
Forceful Mist: Increases the effective range of Mist abilities by 2/4/6/8/10 meters. 5/5
Quick Hands: Increases attack power by 3/6/9/12/15%. 5/5

Tier 2-(6-10 Points)
Hastening Mist: Increases casting and attack speed by 3% to raid or party members in range. This effect last 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range) 1/1
Explosive Burst: Deals 50% of weapon damage plus an additional Water damage to 5 enemies in range for each Combo point. 1/1
Enhancing Cream: Increases Dexterity by 3/6/9%. 3/3
Adrenal Drink: Increases dodge by 1/2/3/4/5%.

Tier 3-(11-15 Points)
High-Potency Toxin: Heals target ally for X to X. 6 second cooldown. 1/1
Alchemic Brilliance: Increases outgoing heals by 1/2/3%. 1/2/3
Flash Potion: The rogue teleports 20 meters in front of them. Breaks stun. 45 second cooldown. 1/1
Deadly Mixture: Allies effected by Field abilities have their outgoing damage to increase by 3/6/10% for 6 seconds.

Tier 4-(16-20 Points)
Quickening Field: Allies in the target area gain a buff that increases run speed by 40% for 30 seconds. 45 second cooldown. 1/1
Medicinal Pump: The target ally receives all of the healing from Soothing Elixir. (The total healing just gets transfered to this ally; think of it as a Synthesis for rogues). 10 second cooldown. 1/1
Extra Potent Toxin: High-Potency Toxin now heals for 50% of the total healed over 6 seconds. 1/1 (Must have 1/1 for High-Potency Toxin)
Quick Thinker: Field abilities have their cooldowns reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%. 5/5

Tier 5-(21-25 Points)
Dampening Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that lower the target's attack power by 8%. Last 1 hour. Only two weapon enchantments can be active at once. 1/1
Forbidden Knowledge: Your next Forbidden Toxin can be casted instantly. 5 Minute Cooldown. 1/1
Resourceful: Alchemic Intervention now only takes 25% of your maximum HP. 1/1
Healing Elixir: Soothing Elixirs outgoing heals now heal for an additional 5/10/15%. 3/3

Tier 6-(26-30 Points)
Alchemic Mist: Reduces magic damage taken by 10% to raid or party members in range. This effect last 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range) 1/1
Potent Potables: Mist effects now linger an additional 1/2/3/4/5 seconds after using another Mist ability. 5/5
Protective Serums: All Alchemist heals now reduce damage taken by 3/6% for 6 seconds. 2/2

Tier 7-(31 Points)
Renewal Field. Allies in the selected area have 1 of their abilities on cooldown reset. Does not affect abilities with a recast lower than 45 seconds. 1 Minute cooldown. 1/1

[Mayi]

I like the idea, but some adjustments.

Rogue
Alchemist
Healer

So my vision with this soul is an “aura” healer. The Mist are all off the GCD and are meant to be cycled through for maximum effect.

Root Abilities

0 - Calming Mist: Heals raid or party members in range for X to X every 2 seconds. This effect last for 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range)
0- Glancing Blow: Deals 50% weapon damage plus X to X Water damage. Awards 1 Combo point.
2- Potent Burst: Finisher, heals the target for x amount increasing depending on combo points
4 - Soothing Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that heals 5 members in range for X. Last 1 hour. Will only activate once on area of effect abilities. Only two weapon enchantments can be active at once.
6- Empowering Potion: The target ally incoming healing is increased by 5%. Last 1 hour.
8 - Nerve Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that snares enemy targets for 50%. Last 1 hour. Only two weapon enchantments can be active at once.
10- Healing Field. Finisher, heals all allies in target area for X to X. Amount increased with more combo points.
12 - Distilled Toxin: Cleanses 1 poison, 1 disease, or 1 curse from the target ally.
12- Revitalizing Serum: Heals 10 allies in the area for 400% of weapon damage plus X to X. Grants 2 Combo points. 10 Second cooldown.
16 - Relaxing Mist: Cleanses 1 poison, 1 disease, or 1 curse every 4 seconds on up to 3 people in raid on raidd or party members in range. This effect last for 10 seconds after you another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range)
18 - Alchemic Intervention: Sacrifices 50% of the Rogues HP to fully heal one target ally. 2 minute cooldown.
20 - Invigorating Potion: Increasing incoming healing by 5% to all party or raid members. Last 1 hour.
20 - High-potency Strike: Finisher, deals 50% weapon damage plus an additional heal to allies within range for each Combo point. Amount increased with more combo points
26- Forbidden Toxin: Brings a fallen ally back to life, restoring 20% mana and health. 5 minute recast. Can be used in combat.
32 - Glowing Field: Cleanses all diseases, curse, and poisons in the target area for 10 allies in range. For each one removed, allies are healed for X. 30 second cooldown.
38 - Rejuvenating Mist: Restores 1 Charge, 20 Mana and 2 Energy every 2 seconds to raid or party members in range. This effect last for 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range)
44 - Improved Alchemy - Healing is increased by 100% and an additional 10% for every point past 44.
51 - Debilitating concoction - The target of your ability will attack 10% slower then normal, including autoattacks. Lasts 10 seconds with a 10 second duration. Gains one combo point.

Branch Abilities.
Tier 1-(0-5 Points)
Forceful Mist: Increases the effective range of Mist abilities by 2/4/6/8/10 meters. 5/5
Quick Hands: Inceases dexterity by 5/10/15/20/25%. 5/5

Tier 2-(6-10 Points)
Hastening Mist: Increases casting and attack speed by 3% to raid or party members in range. This effect last 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range) 1/1
Explosive Burst: Deals 50% of weapon damage plus an additional Water damage to 5 enemies in range for each Combo point. 1/1
Enhancing Cream: Increases effectiveness of weapon dps by 2/4/6 in regards to healing. 3/3
Adrenal Drink: Increases endurance by 2/4/6/8/10%.

Tier 3-(11-15 Points)
High-Potency Toxin: Heals target ally for X to X. 6 second cooldown. 1/1
Alchemic Brilliance: Increases outgoing heals by 1/2/3%. 1/2/3
Flash Potion: The rogue teleports 20 meters in front of them. Breaks stun. 45 second cooldown. 1/1
Deadly Mixture: Allies effected by Field abilities have their outgoing damage to increase by 3/6/10% for 6 seconds.

Tier 4-(16-20 Points)
Quickening Field: Allies in the target area gain a buff that increases run speed by 40% for 30 seconds. 45 second cooldown. 1/1
Medicinal Pump: The target ally receives all of the healing from Soothing Elixir. (The total healing just gets transfered to this ally; think of it as a Synthesis for rogues). 10 second cooldown. 1/1
Extra Potent Toxin: High-Potency Toxin now heals for 50% of the total healed over 6 seconds. 1/1 (Must have 1/1 for High-Potency Toxin)
Quick Thinker: Field abilities have their cooldowns reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%. 5/5

Tier 5-(21-25 Points)
Dampening Elixir: The Rogue coats their weapons in an elixir that lower the target's attack power by 8%. Last 1 hour. Only two weapon enchantments can be active at once. 1/1
Forbidden Knowledge: Your next Forbidden Toxin can be casted instantly. 5 Minute Cooldown. 1/1
Resourceful: Alchemic Intervention now only takes 25% of your maximum HP. 1/1
Healing Elixir: Soothing Elixirs outgoing heals now heal for an additional 5/10/15%. 3/3

Tier 6-(26-30 Points)
Alchemic Mist: Reduces magic damage taken by 10% to raid or party members in range. This effect last 10 seconds after you use another Mist ability. 5 second cooldown. (25 Meter range) 1/1
Potent Potables: Mist effects now linger an additional 1/2/3/4/5 seconds after using another Mist ability. 5/5
Protective Serums: All Alchemist heals now reduce damage taken by 3/6% for 6 seconds. 2/2

Tier 7-(31 Points)
Renewal Field. Allies in the selected area have 1 of their abilities on cooldown reset. Does not affect abilities with a recast lower than 45 seconds. 1 Minute cooldown. 1/1[/QUOTE]


Instead of quoting I just redid some things. Point was to standardize rezes and cures with other classes (copied chloros) and add finishers. Any rogue class needs to incorporate finishers to work.

Great job though, like the idea. I like the idea of auras or hots plus mixing in other abilities to heal.

There's lots of precedent for a martial healer. Check the disciple out: http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Disciple

[Anthony01]

I should have highlighted my Finishers, but I did have three finishers. One was just damage, one was aoe damage, and the other was AoE Heals. I got inspiration from a bit of chloromancer, purifier, sentinel, bard, and a tiny bit of saboteur.

I put the rez where it was to be sort of in the middle of Sentinel/Purifier/Warden and Chloromancer. It's a 12 second cast because it could be used in combat, thus allowing Alchemist with the most spammable in combat rez in the game. I put in one ability that puts it on an instant cast, to make it for emergency tank death. So you can make a choice of sacrificing 12 seconds of your heals to rez someone, or you can continue healing those alive. I believe it's a balanced choice and has great situational use.

I'm am really proud of my 51 point ability. It's truly a raid saver and can be extremely helpful.

Thanks for your feedback though.

[Raynald]

As cool as ll these thoughts are, the fact that the gamespot article specifically says they want to synergies souls "that didn't have a lot of synergy before" makes me suspect rogue heals are not happening, and we will get something that instead synergies with sabo....

That's not to say that, say the alchemist idea CAN'T syn with sabo, but it's obvious that sabo needs some serious synergy love, not to mention better manners of play....

[Stihl]

Rogue souls can effectively no longer benefit from any form of synergy. Controlled fire, steady hand, high explosives, charge booster, trench warfare, contra tempo, blackout, verse of joy, silver tip munitions, rift guard, and the blade dancer crystal have all contributed to the fact that outside of bloodstalker (due to the fact assassin has no "points spent" mechanic in it and its synergy crystal applies expose weakness, a 10 point root ability) any hybrid build you attempt to make can and will be outperformed in its intended duty by a 51 point build. If they implement a soul that has any synergy with saboteur it will either: be a failure because that soul depends so heavily on high explosives, charge booster, and trench warfare; be a new "must have" side soul to overcome the huge benefits from unseen fury and increased fire power in riftstalker and marksman respectively; or become a new 51 point powerhouse in its own right.

Now I could be very wrong but personally, until rogue souls no longer rely so heavily on abilities that are buffed based on point investment, I don't see hybrids being viable outside a few very gimmicky, very niche specs.

[Durango]

As cool as ll these thoughts are, the fact that the gamespot article specifically says they want to synergies souls "that didn't have a lot of synergy before" makes me suspect rogue heals are not happening, and we will get something that instead synergies with sabo....

That's not to say that, say the alchemist idea CAN'T syn with sabo, but it's obvious that sabo needs some serious synergy love, not to mention better manners of play....

Both bard and sab share the same synergy issues, fyi. Neither are ranged and neither are melee and they don't synergize with each other.

[Guardian1uk]

Warriors already have a support soul called warlord and a ranged soul called paragon.
Clerics - already have 2 melee dps souls, they need another ranged dps soul
mages - melee mage sounds interesting

A pirate themed rogue would fit in with the games lore and still be cool. Make it a ranged/melee hybrid kind of like nightblade.

actualy with melee mage, battlemage would be a suggestion, as for rogue well erm....

[Kyera]

If I were filling in the blanks:

Rogue - Healing spec (something to pair with Bard that isn't Riftstalker would be nice, though I acknowledge Sabs have synergy problems)
Warrior - Healing/utility support spec (Warlord hasn't been a 'support soul' since Beta; ideally something that pairs with BM for buff/utility)
Cleric - Support/rdps spec (druid, cabalist, and to some extent inquisitor have 'support' features, but they're either short ranged -- for druid -- or narrow in scope and deep in the rdps trees)
Mage - Tanking spec (potentially using mana as health and health as mana?)

[Laban of C O]

How about... an actual thief class.

Something along the lines of another stealther soul (odd right?) that focuses around debuffs, and trickery in combat. That can actually steal.

level 31 ability: Cut Purse. 3 minute cd ability that allows the thief to cut the flagged players (or humanoid mobs) "coin purse" and said player or mob drops piles of coins equal to .5% of their total current plat on the ground for 5 seconds as they move. It's a different sort of bleed/cc of sorts... You can keep moving, but if you do.. you're going to loose coin. Have it not drop stealth.

51 point ability: Steal. Simple. 5 minute CD ability, opens up the invantory of the target flagged player, and allows you to take 1 non-soulbound item or stack of consumables. For mobs, have it open a invantory window with a randomized level appropriate item for the mob. Have this one break stealth I suppose.

Could come up with other abilities, but that would CERTAINLY make the game more fun for me heh.

[Wulf9]

How about... an actual thief class.

Cool as it would be, I don't see a true thief happening in a game like this.

But it did make me think of a "soul thief" type idea.
This would be a debuff specialist who steals the opponent's power to augment their own. A bit like Estrode.
I could see a 51 point build being a support soul whose main strength lies in weakening the enemy. But lower down you could have synergies.. like a certain theft would augment your melee, one for ranged, pet, mitigation whatever. Possible a scaling health steal for solo build synergy.

[Laban of C O]

Cool as it would be, I don't see a true thief happening in a game like this.

But it did make me think of a "soul thief" type idea.
This would be a debuff specialist who steals the opponent's power to augment their own. A bit like Estrode.
I could see a 51 point build being a support soul whose main strength lies in weakening the enemy. But lower down you could have synergies.. like a certain theft would augment your melee, one for ranged, pet, mitigation whatever. Possible a scaling health steal for solo build synergy.

Just something I could hope for heh. Soul Thief is interesting as well, I kind of like it. But... yeah, that's one of the main reasons I left Lotro. Their "Burglar" couldn't f'ing burgle anything. I was like... "I can't steal ****... but... I'm a thief? wtf?"

[Remli]

I know it's easy to ask for a healing soul since we don't have one, but honestly I don't think many Rogues would WANT to heal. We have a ton of dps variety and and fun-to-play specs compared to the other callings, all with high dps potential. I know I would have the healing build, but I'd definitely want to dps, that's why we chose rogue!

They could add a hybrid: respectable dps and bard-level raid heals, or Beastmaster-level debuff. Perhaps with good synergy to spawn more hybrids and a more efficient farming build. Off the top of my head, they could have a Monk-type who deals melee dps and uses chi and w/e to heal.

Another neat option would be a ranged elemental dps: think fully ranged Nightblade.

[Nadili]

I would love to see a true debuff rogue ie swash/brig ala EQ2 however I think this would be a nightmare to balance in pvp so I don't see it coming.

As the previous poster pointed out a elemental ranged that would work with nightblade would be cool asn is ok synergy but only NB buffs up the fire/death dmg another soul with these would be nice.

The same issue goes for the combat medic mixing it with other rogue souls may cause some pvp op'ness imagine full sin with a ton of group healing in pvp.

I am primarily a pve player however I hope Trion considers pvp balance very carefully when implementing the new souls so we don't see huge nerf gerbil wheel again. Things are actually pretty good for rogues right now let's hope we don't end up pre 1.5.

[Mayi]

I know it's easy to ask for a healing soul since we don't have one, but honestly I don't think many Rogues would WANT to heal. We have a ton of dps variety and and fun-to-play specs compared to the other callings, all with high dps potential.

I disagree. There were a LOT of rogues, not just myself, who chose rogue in beta because they were strong healers. In beta cadence healed the entire raid, not just 5 people, so you could get massive hps numbers.

So while what you say may be true for newer players I don't think it's true for original players. The second statement shows why I think adding another dps soul would be wasteful, and tanking... meh, who tanks as a rogue. Not many. Most people who want to tank and dps chose warrior.