Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions

[Sariina]

Great, so then we can farm air rifts and spend plat on Tempest Mirrors instead? I'm sure within 2 weeks after the change they'd be up on the AH for at least 1p per, too, because Rogues would still be buying them like crack fiends.

Fixing a class mechanic with a consumable is not the way to go, period.

Maybe make the air one do mana/int/wis and the water one do energy/str/dex . . . at least it would spread out the usage. Plus, who uses the air one anyway?

[Gunzip]

You're going to see a dps nerf with blood stalker if rogue energy is buffed. Rogues are still highest single target dps right now.

[TekBlk]

A couple other options are:

1. Make a craftable food for energy regen and ap, likewise a mana regen and sp food to equal things out
2. Add an energy/mana regen to powersurge and brightsurge vials

These things would also improve crafting and economics, which I know some people outside the rogue class would like.

*maybe if we can make nice with the crafting dev we could get something a bit quicker*

[Zazen]

I've always disliked WoW and thus Rift's implementation of damage throttling via a fast regenerating energy pool. I much preferred the EQ2 method where each skill had it's own cooldown and you worked with a pool of mana similar to a caster and also your auto-attack played a big part in your dps and had to be managed effectively.

That being said, the current implementation is here to stay and obviously needs adjustment. Purely as an interim measure, I'd like to see one or more of the following:

- tablets become a vendor-purchasable item
- tablets persist through death
- tablet duration is increased to 30 minutes

Any long-term fix cannot be balanced purely around glib requests such as 'give us a regen of 27/s'. This is too short-sighted to be seriously considered without empirical analysis since any increase in energy regeneration would need to be accompanied by a commensurate reduction in the damage of rogue skills.

[Dreyloch]

This is perhaps a bad idea, but here goes...

Tablets are a set amount of stat and regen bonus as they stand now. I don't know if this could even be coded, but what if tablets had a depreciating regen value? So you leave the tablets in, make them last thru death and for one hour.

However, they start out when you consume them at a much higher regen rate.(I can't suggest a rate to start with. Alot of you are probably better at giving a fair ballpark on that.)

Over the next hour your not able to consume another one, and your regen rate slowly fades down untill the hour is up. It wouldn't go quite to zero, but it'd be a good portion less than when you first ate it. DPS will be a little higher because your less starved over the 1st 30 minutes, but slowly declines on the second half of the hour as your tablet begins to fade.At that point your relying a little more on regen buffs like fervor etc, but your still coming back down to current DPS standards. Dare I say maybe a tiny bit less? Just to make things even out more?

IMO this will
A) still give tablets a purpose
B) balance out our burst during the course of a raid or in PvP against other classes
C) your buying and consuming less of them, and the market comes down to a reasonable rate

I'm sure someone can poke a hole in this idea. Something along the lines of time VS raid encounters over the course of a night, but this is what the thread is for right? To get some ideas and possible workable solutions to this issue?

[Zyzyx]

You're going to see a dps nerf with blood stalker if rogue energy is buffed. Rogues are still highest single target dps right now.

Sorry gunzip ,but this is simply not correct.

Mages are currently the highest dps.

Top mages are doing 4500-4700 on murdantix in raid with HK gear alone.
Compare this to top rogues doing 4200-4300 in hk gear.

Best case scenario with 100-150 dps increase from a hypothetical energy buff puts us about even or maybe a little less than mages. (I am totally cool with this their rotation is significantly more challenging and should pay dividends in being the highest dps.)

[Harlan Nimue]

updated avatar to join the movement


solidarity!

[Muspel]

A couple other options are:

1. Make a craftable food for energy regen and ap, likewise a mana regen and sp food to equal things out
2. Add an energy/mana regen to powersurge and brightsurge vials

Neither of these will help with the fact that most rogue DPS specs are essentially unusable in 5-mans.

More importantly, this just perpetuates the lack of parity between the callings, where rogues need a consumable and other classes don't.

[Muspel]

Any long-term fix cannot be balanced purely around glib requests such as 'give us a regen of 27/s'. This is too short-sighted to be seriously considered without empirical analysis since any increase in energy regeneration would need to be accompanied by a commensurate reduction in the damage of rogue skills.

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3758935

Increased energy regen barely increases damage output.

[Scrumdiddly]

I've always disliked WoW and thus Rift's implementation of damage throttling via a fast regenerating energy pool. I much preferred the EQ2 method where each skill had it's own cooldown and you worked with a pool of mana similar to a caster and also your auto-attack played a big part in your dps and had to be managed effectively.

That being said, the current implementation is here to stay and obviously needs adjustment. Purely as an interim measure, I'd like to see one or more of the following:

- tablets become a vendor-purchasable item
- tablets persist through death
- tablet duration is increased to 30 minutes

Any long-term fix cannot be balanced purely around glib requests such as 'give us a regen of 27/s'. This is too short-sighted to be seriously considered without empirical analysis since any increase in energy regeneration would need to be accompanied by a commensurate reduction in the damage of rogue skills.

I understand you mean that only as an interim measure but, please, explain to me how making tablets more easily available/practical is in any way a better solution than just a flat buff to energy regen? All a tablet is doing is increasing our regen by 2.5/s or whatever. The only difference between making tablets more available and buffing our regen by a commensurate amount is that the former perpetuates the current scenario in which rogues have to jump through hoops or shell out plat in order to play the game, which is bloody stupid.

[Zyzyx]

Haha that avatar is great scrumdiddly!

[Dunharrow]

You're going to see a dps nerf with blood stalker if rogue energy is buffed. Rogues are still highest single target dps right now.

Not necessarily. If you buff base rogue energy to what it is currently with tablet, and then you made tablets no longer affect regen, it would have zero effect on rogue DPS, and wouldn't require any rebalancing. It would simply eliminate tablets from the equation while leaving the results unchanged.

[Zazen]

I understand you mean that only as an interim measure but, please, explain to me how making tablets more easily available/practical is in any way a better solution than just a flat buff to energy regen? All a tablet is doing is increasing our regen by 2.5/s or whatever. The only difference between making tablets more available and buffing our regen by a commensurate amount is that the former perpetuates the current scenario in which rogues have to jump through hoops or shell out plat in order to play the game, which is bloody stupid.

--------- my point





--------- your head

[Daglar]

Not necessarily. If you buff base rogue energy to what it is currently with tablet, and then you made tablets no longer affect regen, it would have zero effect on rogue DPS, and wouldn't require any rebalancing. It would simply eliminate tablets from the equation while leaving the results unchanged.

Something like this isn't totally out of the question. When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

That said, I'm unsure where everyone keeps pulling the number 27 from that I've seen bandied about. Is that trying to take into account fervor as well? Tablet is currently 5 every 5 seconds. That translates to 1 additional energy per second roughly. Which would mean that rogue energy at 24 instead of 23 would be equal to having a tablet on.

Daglar
Lead Game Designer: Rift

[Zyzyx]

Something like this isn't totally out of the question. When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

That said, I'm unsure where everyone keeps pulling the number 27 from that I've seen bandied about. Is that trying to take into account fervor as well? Tablet is currently 5 every 5 seconds. That translates to 1 additional energy per second roughly. Which would mean that rogue energy at 24 instead of 23 would be equal to having a tablet on.

Daglar
Lead Game Designer: Rift

I'm glad you are finally posting on this issue!

"27" is the magic number where rogues are no longer energy starved with fervor. This number of course changes depending on the spec ,but 27 should make us no longer energy starved in raid in the most energy demanding specs. If you'd like I can try to redo the math. I think gery or someone else was the first to do it and start circulating this figure.