Assassin Impacts

[Jabbawockee]

I'm curious what specs you prefer for 1v1 then because Sin/RS (albeit with HK 4PC) is by far one of the strongest 1v1 builds I've used and I've come to fully expect to be able to kill, or run away and return to kill, anybody other than certain full healer specced clerics with it.

I play exactly that a Sin/RS and although I'm not suggesting it's not a strong 1 on 1 build it lacks the damage and potency to drop priority targets (By priority targets I'm saying the cleric that is standing in the back healing while everyone is ignorant to it) Sure I can kill mages and other rogues but that is about it. Still looking for a "killing a healing cleric for dummies manual" I'm sure one is out there. And Warriors who spec RB absolutely destroy me. Do you also kill warriors because the moment I think I have them dead it's amazing how their 5min CD full heal is always ready to save them.

So that all being said I don't mind killing mages or waiting out other rogue to see who shows their hand first but there has to more to the class than spending 90% of the time in stealth and 9% of the time respawning. If this in fact the "impact" of assassins there is a reason most have went into MM or NB/RS.

And for the record No I do not have any pieces of HK gear and No I have no intention of grinding it out. I should be able to get the best items for PvP from PvP, but that is a separate issue.

[Shadowboxerz]

I was on the band wagon also think 51sin is terrible ...until I setup macro's.

I have only vigilante gear (r30?) on across the board on all parts, daggers with equisite whetstone and the +19 crit and a heroic pot with 40 dex an str, and man let me tell you. If I attack from stealth with macro's, there is a good chance the person won't make it out alive. I dropped many people in under 10 seconds last night. The key to it is having crit hits in the assault. This of coarse does not work for all targets aka warriors etc, but most from what I seen.


I'm starting to realize you can not guage how a toon will be until you cap out prestige and have the top tier pvp gear in the game. You just can't tell what you enemy is wearing and new level 50's compared to a prestige 40 toon is like night and day difference. (I'm only P26) I'm still not sold on just one toon yet until I get to prestige 40 and have all top end pvp gear on.

[Shadowboxerz]

I also want to note that sin's should be given an ability to block healing all together for 30 seconds on targets. The healing debuff in the game now is a joke.

Yes another pvp has it and no .. it doesn't make a sin overpowering. It makes the sin part of grp pvp.

[Jabbawockee]

This is the WRONG GAME to get fixated into one possible build like "51 point sin"

You've got SEVERAL ROLES to mess with and customize for god's sake! The amount of customization in Rift is MIND BOGGLING.

Each spec is going to have it's strengths and weaknesses. It might be strong in PvP. It might be more suited to PvE. Maybe it's weak vs. casters, or maybe it's weak vs. plate!

Don't lock yourself into one area. Experiment. Having trouble 1v1 vs. a certain other style of play? Adjust your spec and/or play style and/or skill level to accomadate for it. Figure out WHY they are beating you and SOLVE the issue. There's dozens of builds based on assassin to handle different issues/opponents/playstyles/skill levels.

There is PLENTY of room for solving problems like this - people in this thread have given you a dozen or so suggestions but you disregard each and demand that your specific spec somehow work better without any effort on your own part.

And the whole "I've been playing sin longer than others, I know what it's like and other people saying they are successful at it must be wrong or deluded" spiel is a pretty lame argument dude. Just let it go.

I refuse to ****ing play MM. So let's start with this, I want a melee rogue that can kill a healing cleric, go!
I'll wait for the spec / play style/ skill level answer to accomodate for this opponent

[Xenn]

I refuse to ****ing play MM. So let's start with this, I want a melee rogue that can kill a healing cleric, go!
I'll wait for the spec / play style/ skill level answer to accomodate for this opponent

Was someone suggesting you play MM? Wasn't me.

If you're dead set on killing healing clerics, I'd go for a spec when you could try to lock them out of their spell casts and reduce their healing.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...oddR.V0tMbo.-0

I just whipped that up - don't intend for it to be super analyzed, and doubtless there are much better builds out there from people more skilled than I.

But here are the anti-healer tools I've put in:

Fell Blades - Reduces healing by 50%
Weapon Barrage - Spell Interrupt + 5 Second Silence
Foul Play - Interrupt
Blinding Powder - Interrupt
Debilitating Poison - Aborb 3% Mana

You've also got Paralyzing Strike available, a 4 second stun. Not sure I'd use it as an opener would have to test it. But there might be a time when a Slip Away + Para Strike might give you just enough time to kill a healer before he's able to heal himself more.

I'd play around with it - it would likely be wise to let the dude blow some of his big stuff before you start popping all your interrupt cooldowns.

If I were the one working for a purpose to specifically kill healing clerics solo, I'd just play with my skill points in ways like above and experiment with them. Try different things with the above out.

And ya know, it might just turn out that the spec is nonviable. Maybe it's giving up too much and loses too many strengths versus other classes. Fact is - there are always going to be some specs that are weak or strong vs. others. That's how it works.

Personally I'm not really inclined to do the above spec myself. I prefer Sin/RS as I find the blinking/shadow stepping play style very fun. I also tend to run with another assassin and we have no trouble with healing clerics as we tend to stealth in together and focus fire, which drops them just fine, especially as he's been running with Fell Blades recently.

When I'm in warfronts solo as Sin/RS, I do have trouble killing good cleric healers. The good ones will outlast me and I'll die when their team comes to back them up. But I don't consider that a wasted effort - the healer was completely distracted from the battle at hand and thus not healing his buddies any longer while I was wailing on him.

I realize from your tone that it's quite likely none of this will satisfy you - that's totally fine. Just giving my input. Perhaps a more skilled rogue like Amon can comment on the viability of the above spec.

[Mogh]

When I'm in warfronts solo as Sin/RS, I do have trouble killing good cleric healers. The good ones will outlast me and I'll die when their team comes to back them up. But I don't consider that a wasted effort - the healer was completely distracted from the battle at hand and thus not healing his buddies any longer while I was wailing on him.

That is my experience as well. Sometimes I can kill them, most the time I cannot. Depends on what CDs I have available and which ones they do. Also depends on their DR. Are they immune to CC or not. If so its harder to kill them.

One thing for sure it can take a bit of work and a lot of the times I get peeled by the healers buddies before I can kill him, which is totally fine. While I was beating on that cleric for 30 sec he was blowing his CDs and healing himself and not his buddies. That is the point! It gives my buddies time to take down targets before they get healed up. If played right the healer's buddies die and then my buddies help me kill the healer!

This Jabba guy is pissed and not thinking about how to play smart and seems to not except any solution. He is stuck on "I can't kill the cleric omg, Sin spec is fail." Well man Rogues are not the only ones that can't kill clerics right away. This applies to pretty much every calling atm. Think outside the box and think about how you can help your team. Putting pressure on Healers, Bards, Chloro's does assist your team whether you kill them or not.

Peace, I'm out.

[Jabbawockee]

That is my experience as well. Sometimes I can kill them, most the time I cannot. Depends on what CDs I have available and which ones they do. Also depends on their DR. Are they immune to CC or not. If so its harder to kill them.

One thing for sure it can take a bit of work and a lot of the times I get peeled by the healers buddies before I can kill him, which is totally fine. While I was beating on that cleric for 30 sec he was blowing his CDs and healing himself and not his buddies. That is the point! It gives my buddies time to take down targets before they get healed up. If played right the healer's buddies die and then my buddies help me kill the healer!

This Jabba guy is pissed and not thinking about how to play smart and seems to not except any solution. He is stuck on "I can't kill the cleric omg, Sin spec is fail." Well man Rogues are not the only ones that can't kill clerics right away. This applies to pretty much every calling atm. Think outside the box and think about how you can help your team. Putting pressure on Healers, Bards, Chloro's does assist your team whether you kill them or not.

Peace, I'm out.

This Jabba guy actually does a lot more thinking about his build than you would ever imagine. I know how to maximize each point and ability so that each role has it's function. However, you are correct that I'm upset because you make ridiculous claims of success and then follow it up with well as long as I occupy their time I consider it a victory. I understand that having clerics focus their attention on you instead of their team can assist your team but that is not what I am after. I was explaining that 1 on 1 a skilled geared Sin will almost never kill a skilled geared healing Cleric.

Furthermore, I claimed that the Sin lacks the potency to overcome the heals and that if a rogue spec'd into other souls to receive their utility for healing debuffs, silences, etc. they gimp the Sin soul and therefore the rogue would take a substantial dps loss.

The problem with Assassin is the soul doesn't work for PvP. It does physical damage and requires a lot of points to make that physical damage actually do damage.

I'm not saying you can't Clerics but If you do it's almost surely because they lack either gear, valor, or skill to stay alive. After pushing a cleric to max rank I know this for a fact, I can build a spec that Sin's have no chance at taking down. Is that fair? Maybe, but it's how it is until they fix Assassin.

[Shyessa]

I was explaining that 1 on 1 a skilled geared Sin will almost never kill a skilled geared healing Cleric.

Oh.. for that spec of cleric. OK. You can't kill him. But hey, he can't kill you either. Why does "call it even" result upset you?

[ShazzamCrucia]

Try using 4pc HK with 51sin/15bd, then come back here and complain about damage output...seriously sin is pretty much ok in its current form

Apparently everyone missed the boat when I posted this on Page 2...

No, making pve gear BiS for pvp is not ideal, but...well...in current game it's what ya gotta do to have the dps to burst someone down, IMO, regardless of spec/class when they are well played.


51sin/15bd with 4pc hk crystal IS the ultimate ganking build. 99% of the time you will kill your target, provided they don't get any cross-healing. The only way for anyone to survive this burst, provided you get opener and have slipaway, is to be heavy warden. Their hots keep ticking through stuns and they get the best cleanse in the game. Personally, having only 1 class that gives me a lot of trouble in 51sin makes sense.

More generally, 32sin/18rs/16nb is amazing for ganking healers. permastealth + fell blades, even if you don't drop Mr. Tankwarden solo you are gonna **** his day up and be a great asset to your team. Getting a healer to focus himself instead of his team is effectively the same thing as dropping him outright, and this should be your main goal against skilled/equally geared enemies. Again, run 4pc HK crystal. If I can nullify their warden in the skirmish, then the rest of my team can take out whoever he was healing. My job is to pressure enemy heals as hard as I can; this does not necessitate dropping them in 5 secs, but rather tying them up and reducing their effectiveness. Stunlock 100%->0% is an extremely boring pvp mechanic and I'm glad Trion killed it early on.

As a max rank rogue with a half ranked cleric, I know that when I see a gank-build assassin pop on me that I need to deal with him. This means no orbs for team, soothing stream drops off whoever I was healing, and I may have to use cleansing waters/def cooldowns on myself. Downpour is a huge "interrupt my nub ***" sign, and even ward/sent hybrids with serendipity .5s cast HC can be interrupted. And if they can't, well they will be OOM in 15 seconds anyway.


Also, heavy sin makes a fantastic scion runner gank build / WFS crystal defense / Codex solo flag defender / black garden heal gank build.

Heavy sin in pvp is 2 things:

1) Ganking solo folks runnin about and /dance on their corpses

and

2) Putting crucial DPS pressure on important targets at the most opportune time (get the wardens when their SS stacks get less than 3s...theyll lose the HoT and die quickly. Marksman exceeds at dropping raw dps and purge from range, but nothing scatters and distracts a pack of enemies as much as them knowing that a nasty sin is hanging around waiting for someone to separate from the zerg ;O

[rennlc]

Probably the biggest weakness of assassins in WFs is the fast respawns and short travel time from those respawns. I mean, if you take that opportune moment, use your CDs (which you'll need to), take out a key player or two, and win a fight, you've shot your wad of CDs and surprise to set a few players back a minute or so. If you died in a warfront and stayed dead until the game, or just a round like in Counterstrike, CoD's Search&Destroy, and all the other last man standing gametypes, assassins would be key for getting your team a numbers advantage.

The best use I've ever made of a sin build in a group situation was back when MM used Hit&Run. If our group cleared out another in a close fight where I burned Hit&Run and quick reload and another fight was going to be happening in less than a minute, I would switch to an assassin spec for it. This wasn't because sin was great for that or anything. It was just better at killing players than MM was with it's CDs down. Now if players were going to optimally switch between fights like this, it would be to switch from a high NB spec after burning ebon fury to MM.

[Slic]

@OP:

Hi, you obviously didn't play during 1.1-1.3, back when rogues actually were nerfed to all hell. Here is a vid of 51sin destroying multiple opponents at a time, during patch 1.1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg__21P2_PM&hd=1

Now, kindly ask yourself "on a scale of bad to REALLY BAD, how bad am I?". Let me just be clear about this. Assuming equal gear on both sides:

1) Assassin gank specs are not for warfronts.

2) Assassin gank specs are the easiest way to rack up lots of solo kills without spending half your time respawning. In fact, after 1.5, anyone that's not a really, REALLY TANKY 1v1 spec (SnB warriors with full heal, etc.) will die if you open on them. Unless you're bad. Are you bad?

3) If you're bad, the 1st thing you should do is practice staying melee range of a good kiter. This includes them changing directions, snaring you, breaking out of your snare (malicious strike). Feel free to spend that other 15 points into sould that will help you close the gap on them. The one thing you STILL need to actually be good at as a heavy sin is staying on someone. If you can't do that, don't play sin.

4) If you want a warfront/premade/zerg-type build, look into marksman and 100-0 ing someone in 5 seconds from 35 meters.