Saboteur changes for 1.8

[Vyxagallanxchi]

I don't think there is a single player in this entire game who doesn't solo adventure at least a few times in the week be it world events, pa farming, or daily quests.

Energy starvation is definitely the biggest problem facing rogues today. Energy starvation has a very large impact on solo play, in 5 man groups (I hate cleric healers cuz no living energy and I have to change my rotation.), and most importantly in a raid enviroment.

I don't farm PAs, do dailies (besides the warfront daily) or world event quests. There are some people who don't go around doing solo farming and whatnot. We're just very far and few between.

Not really related but yeah, I felt like being the devil's advocate.

[Vitto]

Being energy starved in open world definitely affects my enjoyment of the class. Relying on having a Chloro or Bard has the same affect in group content. I'm not at the point of kicking and screaming about it; but if I wasn't energy starved 80% of the time I played my Rogue I would certainly enjoy it and the game a lot more.

[Zyzyx]

I don't farm PAs, do dailies (besides the warfront daily) or world event quests. There are some people who don't go around doing solo farming and whatnot. We're just very far and few between.

Not really related but yeah, I felt like being the devil's advocate.

How did you level up?

[DTM300]

Being energy starved in open world definitely affects my enjoyment of the class. Relying on having a Chloro or Bard has the same affect in group content. I'm not at the point of kicking and screaming about it; but if I wasn't energy starved 80% of the time I played my Rogue I would certainly enjoy it and the game a lot more.

Honestly... 100% my feelings as well. 5 man's I HAVE to go MM all the time or BD. Just kills enjoyment because I can't switch it up die to starvation. Farming enjoyment killed primarily due to starvation as well. Self healing is in there, but only when comparing to other callings.

Sux since PvE is like 90%+ of this game. No point in having a 1 sec GCD if you become starved so fast that it becomes 1.2 or 1.3. I'd rather just make it 1.5, raise damage by 50%, and fix energy like warriors.

IF starvation is going to stay that is.

[Undrsiege]

Technically it only effects solo adventuring, but this is a pve game so I'd say it's a fair amount.

I'd say energy starvation while solo is the biggest issue for rogues period. After that it's just tweaks with self healing and we should be ok. Solo adventuring that is.

I do think sabs should have an ability equal to Ravaging Darkness which the cabalist has for soul self healing.

[Zyzyx]

I do think sabs should have an ability equal to Ravaging Darkness which the cabalist has for soul self healing.

You forgetting that cabalist can easily spec into justicar to get salvation? Don't make me link youtubes.

When I do my dungeon daily the healer in my group runs cabalist. So he not only has more than ravaging darkness to heal himself ,but can also heal a tank.

[Undrsiege]

You forgetting that cabalist can easily spec into justicar to get salvation? Don't make me link youtubes.

When I do my dungeon daily the healer in my group runs cabalist. So he not only has more than ravaging darkness to heal himself ,but can also heal a tank.

I said soul never mentioned anything about synergy start in the soul first......

ps: since this is a discussion about sabs..

[Zyzyx]

I said soul never mentioned anything about synergy start in the soul first......

ps: since this is a discussion about sabs..

One of the main complaints about sabs is that it has little to no synergy.

[DTM300]

One of the main complaints about sabs is that they have little to no synergy.

Probably number 1 issue, if you count backloaded burst as the mechanic that is here to stay. Dps being competitive should be a given. So yea... Synergy.

[Mayi]

Just to be the devil's advocate, Sab is the rogue aoe soul. There was no mention of making Sab the rogue soloing soul.

The standard melee PA farming spec is good enough for AoE grinding, MM works great in onslaughts. At least at my gear level soloing is a non-issue as a rogue, is it difficult at lower gear levels? I wasn't aware there's an issue where rogues were poor soloists. If anything rogues are the envy of other classes because we can tag mobs so easily in onslaughts as a MM.

Another point, I would be vehemently against any change to sab that would cause the devs to have to balance sab by reducing it's aoe potential. Sure if they can make it a good soloing soul without losing one lick of aoe dps, go for it. If they add soloing ability and to offset the changes have to reduce the aoe... no way in hell. Deeps > all other considerations.

[mich]

If an ability attack deals non-physical damage, it will be indicated in the tooltip description. Otherwise, it is physical.

cool great news ... and about our energie issue ?

[Mirimon]

If an ability attack deals non-physical damage, it will be indicated in the tooltip description. Otherwise, it is physical.

wait what? just got confused somehow..

are you saying that its only non physical if it states exactly "does non-physical damage" in tool tips?

myself, and perhaps a few others, would really like some specifics.

currently on pts:
you have removed all wording on sab abilities that said they do physical damage, and replaced all wording on the ability tool tips to such:

"deals weapon damage and health" - this mean the health dmg is a non physical component?, since the words "physical dmg" are not there?

or "deals weapons damage and earth damage"

its all very confusing, as abilities that do physical damage explicitly say "physical damage" in them. such as bleeds from sin, these are not implied physical as the tool tip clearly states "bleeds for physical damage" or blast charge on live, which clearly states physical.

I would like a very clear response to this from you, not from some theory crafter, or some outdated parser, a simply break down of what actually is what
what does "health damage" mean in rift terms

does "non-physical" apply to everything else other than "magic" that does not say "physical" in the wording? when is something physical and when is it not? why bother making only some abilities say such and then internally imply the meaning to some of the others? why can these differences not be in the tool tips?

[Enaki]

I honestly don't see how he could be clearer man. His response was very straight forward. Perhaps if you provided specific examples of abilities you are confused on it would help.

[Mirimon]

sab 1.7 live tool tip
blast charge
"dealing weapon plus X physical damage"
sab 1.8 pts set 3
blast charge
"deals x to x plus weapon damage per stack"

* so, is that x to x physical? nonphysical, health? damage to psyche? number of clown shoes?

sab 1.7 live tool tip
fragmentation bomb
"dealing weapons plus x to x physical damage"
sab 1.8 pts set 3
frag bomb
" deals x to x plus weapon damage"

?

heres a good one..
sab 1.7 live tool tip
spike charge
"causing the enemy to bleed for weapons plus x physical damage per charge"
sab 1.8 pts set 3 tool tip
spike charge
"bleeds weapons damage plus x HEALTHper stack"
so, new term here, what is health? all damage, no matter its form, reduces a players health.. what is this "health dmg"?


I know "charges" tool tip on pts states "all charges COUNT as poisons".. to what end, for what purpose and how is that counted?, as a dot? as something cleanseable? (poisons are not physical, they specifically state x amount of water etc.)

shrapnel is similar, goes from weapon plus physical to a "x to x plus weapon"

caltrop in 1.7 is weapon plus earth, in 1.8 set 3 it's "bleeds weapons plus x health".. as does barbed trap.

shall we consider all "bleeds" physical?
what about unstated damage types? also assume physical I.E. "deals 344 to 348 plus weapons damage"?

detonate in 1.8 set 3 says "deals weapon damage plus additional 1252 damage" what s that, an assumed physical attribute?

based on Ailion's statement, anything that has no specified damage type is physical, so please tell me about these damages that specify "health", "bleed".

testing different souls to get the highest possible numbers is granted, but shouldn't the wording in a sense match what is tested and blends well?

[Vyxagallanxchi]

How did you level up?

You don't farm PAs to level. You don't need to do world events to level. And you don't need to do dailies to level. Besides, Sabo solo levels perfectly fine 1-50. If a mob manages to get close enough to hit you, you're doing it wrong.

Also, self-healing is hardly needed for the dailies except maybe EI ones. I wouldn't know about those. I've been to EI only once or twice since it came out on Live. I just do warfronts nowadays. Unlike most people, I'm not fussed about PAs and whatnot. I get them as I get them.

But to answer your question. I leveled up by questing in Freemarch until level 20, questing in stonefield until the upper 20s, scarlet gorge until the low 30s, scarwood reach until about level 38 I think it was, then IPP until 44, and then Stillmoor until 50. With warfronts thrown into the mix. 2 dungeons, 1 Iron tomb and 1 FoLH I think it was. Primarily in the level 30s range I did blackgardens as a riftstalker and teleported the fang up onto the defiant hill where me and a friend passed it off to each other while he and another 2 friends rolled sabo and turned people into piles of ashes. Oh, and I also went around the open world with a few friends and ganked the hell out of people. Does that answer your question?