Saboteur changes for 1.8

[Beckmann]

Actually I'm going to take this back a little bit. I parsed BD in the relic gear bag and was reminded that it's not all BiS (especially the essences). I think the ST with these changes is a little too high, especially accounting for Serrated Blades.

Spike

The one part of the rotations that is really out of line with everything else is Spike. If Spike had a 20% DPS nerf then it would mean...

• AE DPS = 6.15k, ST DPS = 2.29k DPS. (Assuming +100% CB and not accounting for Serrated Blades).
• Spike is still a DPS gain in AE but not tremendously so. This means Sab is overall less reliant on bleeds to do good damage.
• Demolition Specialist becomes more of a utility skill rather than a necessity in AE.
• The "carpet bombing rotation" is a DPS loss. Good riddance! Carpet Bombing is also a utility skill to reset CB and AB as needed.

Chemical Bomb, part trois

I did not include these numbers above because it confused the comparison. But I found a way to improve the AE rotation with CB so it becomes:

[A]: TB > FB > CB > Ca x3 > Det > Sh x2 > Det
[B]: TB > FB > CB > Ca x2 > Det > Sp x3 > AB

Sustained: [A] > [A] > [B]

This rotation is a DPS gain if CB is buffed, otherwise CB should be dropped in favor of completing the full charge load. It parses 6.4k with Chemical at +100% buff and 6.15k with Chemical at 6.15k buff. Without Chemical Bomb, the AE is 5.5k. (All of this assumes nerfed Spike charge to bring ST in line.)

With a +50% buff, Chemical Bomb is a DPS loss in ST and the best rotation I've found is:

Sp x3 > D > Bl x 3 > FB > Bl x 2 > FB - 2.26k (without Serrated)

At this point I'm going to stop playing with different modifiers for CB other than to say...

• With no buff, CB is a DPS loss in AE and ST.
• +50% makes it a DPS gain in AE but not ST -- best rotations I've found are 6.15k AE, 2.26k ST.
• +100% makes it a DPS gain in AE and ST -- best rotations I've found are 6.4k AE, 2.29k ST.

Complete Set of Suggested Changes

It may seem like a lot of crap must have changed because of the amount I've been posting and tweaking things, but the changes are actually modest.

• Charges load two at a time & two CP.
• Buff Chemical Bomb by either 50% / 100%.
• Nerf Spike Charge by 20%.
• Remove the cooldown on Fragmentation Bomb.

These changes seem simple enough to me and they would make Sab useful & competitive with SC/pyro.

[Puandro]

F self healing on sab.

[Enaki]

I don't think 3 target dps is something we should be focused on with an aoe soul.

The problem is that is the only thing we can test with the current target dummy. The good news that due to how Sab damage is applied you should be able to easily extrapolate the numbers for a larger set of mobs. That's not as easy with Stormcaller.

[Beckmann]

Thank you Beckmann. Really appreciate this. How long are you running the tests and what are the numbers for the stormcaller? I'm also assuming you are comparing them without PA and with 4 piece HK crystal.

Well to be clear I'm theorycrafting numbers based on a spreadsheet I made. So I'm trying my best not to make mistakes, but take these numbers with a grain of salt! Also, this clearly isn't being tested on live because I'm assuming certain changes that don't exist (charges loading twice as fast as they do now being the big one). So this is based on theoretical sustained DPS rather than tests on PTS right now.

All of this theorycrafting is being done based on data I collected in 46/20 here. I have reset PA. I was using the appropriate crystal to collect the data.

I'd be happy to share my spreadsheet so everyone can see how I'm coming up with all of this if there's a good way to do it.

[Zyzyx]

The problem is that is the only thing we can test with the current target dummy. The good news that due to how Sab damage is applied you should be able to easily extrapolate the numbers for a larger set of mobs. That's not as easy with Stormcaller.

Why are we only making comparisons to stormcaller?

Are there changes to cabalist I may have missed?

Numbers from last night (t2 fire RR packs of 24 dogs aoe'd down)

Cabalist: 12-18k dps
Stormcallers: 12-15kdps
warriors: 10-11k dps
Marksman: 8-9k dps

EDIT: That's just what I remember from simplemeter off of my head. I'll try to get someone who saved it to post screens of ACT.

[Beckmann]

Just double checked mage numbers. Relic gear bag, powerstone, PA reset, stormcaller crystal.

I'm parsing 6.05-6.2k on 3 targets with timing mistakes. (My keyboard at work is awful.) 36/30 sc/pyro.

This is for a couple mins but SC has very good rampup time so it stabilizes after 20 secs or so and doesn't change much after.

[Beckmann]

Why are we only making comparisons to stormcaller?

Are there changes to cabalist I may have missed?

Numbers from last night (t2 fire RR packs of 24 dogs aoe'd down)

Cabalist: 12-18k dps
Stormcallers: 12-15kdps
warriors: 10-11k dps
Marksman: 8-9k dps

EDIT: That's just what I remember from simplemeter off of my head. I'll try to get someone who saved it to post screens of ACT.

We're only comparing to stormcaller because I'm the only one posting numbers and I only have a mage and a rogue on PTS with relic gear.

[Zyzyx]

We're only comparing to stormcaller because I'm the only one posting numbers and I only have a mage and a rogue on PTS with relic gear.

I have all 3. Are you defiant?

[Beckmann]

It parses 6.4k with Chemical at +100% buff and 6.15k with Chemical at 6.15k buff.

Brain fart, this is supposed to read "6.15k with Chemical at +50% buff."

[Beckmann]

I have all 3. Are you defiant?

Guardian. /10

[Zyzyx]

Guardian. /10

Welp!

Some interesting numbers:

Self heals

Storm caller: 250 hps
Cabalist: 500 hps
saboteur: 0 hps

[bitnine]

Welp!

Some interesting numbers:

Self heals

Storm caller: 250 hps
Cabalist: 500 hps
saboteur: 0 hps

Other interesting statistics:

Caring about numbers
Bloodstalker DPS: 78%
Marksman DPS: 88%
Saboteur DPS: 37%
Saboteur HPS: -12%

[Beckmann]

Why are we only making comparisons to stormcaller?

Are there changes to cabalist I may have missed?

Numbers from last night (t2 fire RR packs of 24 dogs aoe'd down)

Cabalist: 12-18k dps
Stormcallers: 12-15kdps
warriors: 10-11k dps
Marksman: 8-9k dps

EDIT: That's just what I remember from simplemeter off of my head. I'll try to get someone who saved it to post screens of ACT.

If I go for 8 targets and my suggested changes (+50% CB), my spreadsheet says Sab sustains 16k DPS under perfect conditions. Given the huge forked lightning buff coming in the next patch this seems in line with the other callings (I don't know anything about warriors).

[Remli]

Other interesting statistics:

Caring about numbers
Bloodstalker DPS: 78%
Marksman DPS: 88%
Saboteur DPS: 37%
Saboteur HPS: -12%

Yep! This...

[Zyzyx]

If I go for 8 targets and my suggested changes (+50% CB), my spreadsheet says Sab sustains 16k DPS under perfect conditions. Given the huge forked lightning buff coming in the next patch this seems in line with the other callings (I don't know anything about warriors).

Your spread sheet assumes old charge booster mechanic and spammable frag bomb though correct?