Saboteur changes for 1.8

[Beckmann]

You'd definitely get a good DPS gain from

RS > charge > Det

in any of these rotations ...

And this will probably be a big DPS gain every 2 mins...

Carpet Bombing > RS > Spike > AB
Caltrop x5 > Det > Spike x5 > AB x3

(It may have been already but without clipping it certainly will.)

[Enaki]

I need to play with the changes and think a lot of things through before I can say anything meaningful, but a couple of initial thoughts:

Splinter Charge: The value of the armor debuff has been increased. A 5 point Splinter Charge will be slightly higher than a 3/3 Piercing Shot.

No offense, but you're missing the point. We don't want it to be the best debuff. We want a decent AoE debuff that we don't have to spend 6 GCD on to use. No one else has to spend that that extreme of a time investment to get similar or slightly better debuff results. Ok, potentially bards, but even they are able to do it 4 GCD, and all they are losing is finisher damage (which is not that high to be begin with). Compare that to Sab who either has to waste a Rapid Setup or take 6 GCDs to apply every 30 second for an ability with less base damage and no residual.

Is there a particular reason why this can't be made into a bomb? Are there PVP concerns? Is it viewed as too easy? Does that come too close to the verboten "overhaul"?

I'm fairly sure you could leave the total debuff at 540, make it an AE bomb that does no damage and most players would be fine because it would be useful with minimal DPS loss while not making Piercing Shot (which belongs to a Soul you're trying to improve) pointless.

I'm also still not sure what Combined Arms is trying to accomplish. Ok, if you want to spend a significant amount of time setting up Spike or Blast on 10 mobs then you could use Frag to interesting effect. No one is going to do that for anything other than fun though. The ability to use a different finisher seems pointless given that Frag triggers HE and you need it more that than access to another finisher. Just seems like a waste of two branch ability points when the Soul is in need of damage boosts and more synergy.

[Zyzyx]

Additional updates for 1.8. These won't be up on the test shard until the end of the week or next week.

Marksman

Empowered Shot: Energy cost has been reduced from 45 to 40.

Ranger

Splinter Shot: Energy cost has been reduced from 45 to 40.

Improved Escape Artist: Removed

New tier 6 talent: Steady Hand: Increases the effect of Attack Power on ranged weapon abilities by 5%, plus an additional 2% per point spent in the Ranger soul above 26.

2 piece HK synergy crystal: Now also reduces the energy cost of Shadow Fire by 10.

Saboteur

Chemical Bomb: Duration of the effect is increased to 10 sec, up from 8 sec. Damage has been adjusted.

Spike Charge: Duration of the effect is increased to 10 sec, up from 9 sec. DOT interval is now every 2 sec, down from 3 sec. Damage has been adjusted.

Caltrop Charge: Duration of the effect is reduced to 10 sec, down from 15 sec. DOT interval is now every 2 sec, down from 3 sec. Damage has been adjusted.

Improved Spike Charge: Removed

New tier 4 talent: Combat Wounds: Increases the damage of Spike Charge and Caltrop Charge by 10/20%.

Bomb Specialist: Now also reduces the energy cost of Bombs by 1/2/3/4/5.

Demolition Specialist: Number of enemies affected has been increased to 4/8 other enemies.

Trench Warfare: Now also affects Detonate.

Splinter Charge: The value of the armor debuff has been increased. A 5 point Splinter Charge will be slightly higher than a 3/3 Piercing Shot.

Thanks for looking at energy for ranger. The next major concern is Expose weakness making us energy starved in all specs that use that.

Ranger crystal buff? Plz revert the 1.6 change to the MM crystal so that it is not better to use the ranger crystal with a 51 pt mm spec.

I'll test these sab changes ,but I don't think they fix the main issues with the soul like set up time. I'd also like to use our aoe soul like clerics do for farming mobs. Self healing is needed for this because leeching poison doesn't proc. Some sort of weapon enchant that heals maybe?

Energy is still a major issue for the entire calling. Not sure if these are enough for ranger ,but a good step in the right direction.

[Beckmann]

I'll test these sab changes ,but I don't think they fix the main issues like set up time.

It helps with ramp-up time. Cuts 5 seconds off the time needed for damage to hit the mob. That is significant, and shortening the rotation by 50% could be a significant DPS buff.

I'm worried that the cost of this may be an ugly rotation, at least from what I can tell so far.

[Vitto]

Please don't force someone to play Sab for a freaking armor debuff...

[Beckmann]

Please don't force someone to play Sab for a freaking armor debuff...

If its not that much better than Ranger then it might not be worth it, except on fights where an AE armor debuff is particularly valuable. (And the odds of that happening ... ?) I doubt it will make or break any boss in ID.

[Enaki]

If its not that much better than Ranger then it might not be worth it, except on fights where an AE armor debuff is particularly valuable. (And the odds of that happening ... ?) I doubt it will make or break any boss in ID.

Worth 6 seconds of GCD (unless you have and really want to waist Rapid Setup) , 12 a minute, doing suboptimal damage (on a Soul that still appears to need damage increases)?

I'm still at a loss as to why this is not an instant cast of some type.

[Gery]

Worth 6 seconds of GCD (unless you have and really want to waist Rapid Setup) , 12 a minute, doing suboptimal damage (on a Soul that still appears to need damage increases)?

I'm still at a loss as to why this is not an instant cast of some type.

Yeah it's an awfully long setup and personal dps loss for a debuff. I would like to see it give the full strength debuff on a single charge and then have the duration affected by the amount of charges. 15 seconds of debuff per charge would be good.

[Zyzyx]

It helps with ramp-up time. Cuts 5 seconds off the time needed for damage to hit the mob.

Which change is this?

[Vyxagallanxchi]

Which change is this?

I think he means, the total time for the DoTs to apply full damage is shortened by 5 seconds.

[Zyzyx]

I think he means, the total time for the DoTs to apply full damage is shortened by 5 seconds.

So we spend more time applying dots instead of doing more front-loaded damage...

[Beckmann]

So we spend more time applying dots instead of doing more front-loaded damage...

If the DoTs do the same damage in shorter time, then it is front-loading the damage ... more, at least. That's all I mean.

And it's also a DPS boost.

[Adnoz]

If the DoTs do the same damage in shorter time, then it is front-loading the damage ... more, at least. That's all I mean.

And it's also a DPS boost.

It's not front loading at all, it's still entirely double-backloaded, just slightly less than previously. You spend time doing no damage so that you can start doing damage over time.
DPS increase for sure, actual in-game usability outside of dummy tests and upstairs HK trash? nope

[Beckmann]

It's not front loading at all, it's still entirely double-backloaded, just slightly less than previously. You spend time doing no damage so that you can start doing damage over time.
DPS increase for sure, actual in-game usability outside of dummy tests and upstairs HK trash? nope

Yeah it was a stretch. So sue me.

[Sharpshooter]

Just remove Splinter Charge altogether and add armor debuff as an added effect to Fragmentation,Annihilation or Time bomb.
Its ridiculous to use 5-6 GCDs to put that debuff and do moderate damage.