Saboteur changes for 1.8

[lgw]

No, warriors are top DPS because they passively cleave everything.

Adding more cleave is stupid. That's why you go BS; The warriors have it covered. Ants can be covered by ONE warrior on Grug.

This.
AOE is limited by the amounts of HP on the adds -- ST is not.

Right now, there are only 1-2 kinda AOE fights in the game.
1) Akylios, as there are constantly adds, and in the important P4 you have Aky+Jorna / Jorna+Lasher.
2) King/Prince if you tank them next to each other.

Oh, and if Warrior passive cleave doesn't cut it, there's SC Mages.

And that's the problem I still see with Sab - although for pure AOE Cabs are top or even the best, nobody uses them, because they can only AOE. Besides all its other problems, Sab is designed right now to work similar to Cab... I don't see where this will make them desirable in raids compared to superb BS ST or flexible/utility MM.

[Beckmann]

And that's the problem I still see with Sab - although for pure AOE Cabs are top or even the best, nobody uses them, because they can only AOE. Besides all its other problems, Sab is designed right now to work similar to Cab... I don't see where this will make them desirable in raids compared to superb BS ST or flexible/utility MM.

That's why Sab can't be another Cab. The ST DPS needs to be similar to SC/pyro -- 85% - 90% of the competitive specs. Or it will not be used except on trash, where it doesn't matter.

[lgw]

That's why Sab can't be another Cab. The ST DPS needs to be similar to SC/pyro -- 85% - 90% of the competitive specs. Or it will not be used except on trash, where it doesn't matter.

Sure !
... now try to explain that to Aillion and his "no major overhauls". GL
(For non-Mages as explanation: SC ST damage scales up with the number of targets he can AOE -- not overall damage, but even and especially ST damage.)

Working with what we have, I'd suggest instead to give Sab enough AOE punch (and maybe some raidworthy utility) to make up for that. If you remove that thrice stupid bleed Sab has also the advantage that he can setup huge spikes, which alone is worth something.
Imagine a Zamira-like boss in ID. On release, Sab stacks 5x Shrap on Zamira and waits for the adds to pop. Now he goes Detonate > Annihalation > Rapid + Shrap > Det > Carpet + Anni > 2x Shrap > Anni > 2x Shrap > Anni > Shrap > Det > Anni. Now that some huuuge burst, plus effektively CCing the adds during the whole time. Add some worthy traps if you feel like...

[Gunzip]

Any new info on Sab changes? Last time things weren't looking so good!

[Zyzyx]

Any new info on Sab changes? Last time things weren't looking so good!

Nope this thread has gone on 6-10 pages without a dev response.

I'm starting to worry if Aillion is okay. Myabe petgroup got to him or something.

[Beckmann]

Nope this thread has gone on 6-10 pages without a dev response.

I'm starting to worry if Aillion is okay. Myabe petgroup got to him or something.

I hope Ailion can chuckle at this kind of stuff and we aren't shortening his life span.

It would be good to hear from him, though. I assume silence means some more significant changes are on the horizon.

[Koe]

I assume silence means some more significant changes are on the horizon.

"No news is good news." is a popular, but horribly wrong adage.

[Enaki]

I hope Ailion can chuckle at this kind of stuff and we aren't shortening his life span.

It would be good to hear from him, though. I assume silence means some more significant changes are on the horizon.

I'm hoping the man is on the beach with his significant other not thinking about us at all. There's still plenty of time for dialing things in before 1.8, and lord knows we give him enough grief to need some down time.

My guess is Sab will workout like NB did, one round of major tweaks that gets its close but not quite there, and then some smaller touches in 1.9 that land it in a good spot. No guesses on PAs though.

[Vyxagallanxchi]

I'm hoping the man is on the beach with his significant other not thinking about us at all. There's still plenty of time for dialing things in before 1.8, and lord knows we give him enough grief to need some down time.

No lie there. If he had a dollar for every time he's been insulted or complained about on this forum, he would be literally drowning in cash.

[Petgroup]

I'm hoping the man is on the beach with his significant other not thinking about us at all. There's still plenty of time for dialing things in before 1.8, and lord knows we give him enough grief to need some down time.

Warriors have had how long to test changes and retest new changes? Not to mention 100+ pages ongoing regarding them with double digit dev replies inside it. Stop sugar coating this steaming pile of bs. It is what it is. A hail mary attempt that the quarterback got sacked on and has yet to wake up.

My guess is Sab will workout like NB did, one round of major tweaks that gets its close but not quite there, and then some smaller touches in 1.9 that land it in a good spot. No guesses on PAs though.

Keep passing the buck to another update. Brilliant idea. In the time being everyone else will blow us outta the water in AOE and guess what else? You know that "top dps" single target spec that we have, wait till 1.8 goes live. Enjoy being in 3rd place. YOU wanted it that way till a later date.

I'm starting to worry if Aillion is okay. Myabe petgroup got to him or something.

I'm 1 subscriber. I'm the least of his worries.

[Gunzip]

When my guild starts benching rogues in favor of stacking warriors, then I'll start worrying, until then, game on and screw crap Sab.

[Enaki]

Petgroup, I understand why you're frustrated but if you keep letting yourself rage like this over something as silly as a video game you're going to blow a heart valve man. And still not influence Ailion to do what you want. Relax a bit man.

[Petgroup]

Petgroup, I understand why you're frustrated but if you keep letting yourself rage like this over something as silly as a video game you're going to blow a heart valve man. And still not influence Ailion to do what you want. Relax a bit man.

Just telling it how it is.

When my guild starts benching rogues in favor of stacking warriors, then I'll start worrying, until then, game on and screw crap Sab.

Some guilds do not have the luxury of picking and choosing who to sit. The top 20 have been running HK and clearing for months. Which means they have all top gear, marks, pa's etc. You aren't sitting me for a 2-piece Warrior under any circumstance. Which then makes you're argument, mute. Unless you're guild somehow has 2 raids that have cleared HK since release.

[Zyzyx]

Petgroup, I understand why you're frustrated but if you keep letting yourself rage like this over something as silly as a video game you're going to blow a heart valve man. And still not influence Ailion to do what you want. Relax a bit man.

I've been in a guild with petgroup. He's one of the chillest dudes out there. If you knew him better you would laugh uncontrollably at every single one of his posts like I do. He's one of the funniest people I've played a video game with.

<3 <3 petgroup

[Nnnxia]

Ailion's next reply probably along the lines of :

"No further changes intended for the saboteur soul in 1.8"

Should really rotate class lead devs, this has been going on for a year already and its really discouraging.