Upcoming Rogue changes for 1.7

[Undrsiege]

I can agree with this actually. Warriors have what, 2 separate hit talents, and with this change rogue will have Zero? (MM one doesn't count since it's ranged only) I liked having a hit talent to toss some points into while leveling up so i wouldn't miss so much, and it definitely helped when HK first came out and i needed the extra hit. Now rogues will have no way of gaining hit from talents at all. That seems like it may be a bad talent to change/remove.

Taking away the +hit is good news...

[hejtmane]

This is how the new spec prolly would look like (just a wild guess)
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...Vh.GVRMxsfVbbM

Now just theory crafting here and not sure how it would work but I was looking at BD/Sin/MM

With BD and MM you could reach 40% Ignore armor and leveraging the sin poison increase still not sure if it would work but it is intriguing for me since I like BD. Then again I could just be off my rocker and it could just suck. Here is to up coming testing.

[Zyzyx]

Just go for combat efficiency 3/3 then it's almost as efficient with common mobs and it's even more against EI mobs or elites.

I can't use finishers much because rift scavenger won't let me. I find combat effeciency(CE) to be worth less energy despite having 2 points invested in it instead of 1.

25(CC) energy vs 5(CE) energy seems like a no brainer to me going with combat culmination

EDIT: I think that instead of changing a useful talent we should all be using (combat culmination) they should make the armor pen improved false blade instead.
EDIT2: If they are going to leave compound attack being useless I'd appreciate a ranged aoe attack ability to help pull mobs.

Hey Ailion,

Could you possibly tell us some background or reason for these changes. As in what direction you're trying to have rogues head with these changes? Slight blurb, nothing major. Even if it's an overview.

Thanks.

Also this. If you guys want all the souls to have synergy potential sab is next.

[hejtmane]

I can't use finishers much because rift scavenger won't let me. I find combat effeciency(CE) to be worth less energy despite having 2 points invested in it instead of 1.

25(CC) energy vs 5(CE) energy seems like a no brainer to me going with combat culmination

EDIT: I think that instead of changing a useful talent we should all be using (combat culmination) they should make the armor pen improved false blade instead.

I wish they change Rift scavenger to a point combo finisher that gives back life. I am not sure what the % would need to be to be for balance. We already see it on tank builds that use reaver soul feast,paladins tip the balance. and justicar two skills.

[Zyzyx]

I wish they change Rift scavenger to a point combo finisher that gives back life. I am not sure what the % would need to be to be for balance. We already see it on tank builds that use reaver soul feast,paladins tip the balance. and justicar two skills.

That would be interesting ,but then you run into issues where mobs die before you get a finisher off. It could end up being worse for rogue solo pve.

I think the devs will realize changing combat culmination is a bad idea as it synergizes with the current rift scavenger too well.

We need to test the changes to leeching poison first. If that can ever be viable self healing option like boea or salvation it would open up a ton of potentially new builds.

[-Shiva-]

I can agree with this actually. Warriors have what, 2 separate hit talents, and with this change rogue will have Zero? (MM one doesn't count since it's ranged only) I liked having a hit talent to toss some points into while leveling up so i wouldn't miss so much, and it definitely helped when HK first came out and i needed the extra hit. Now rogues will have no way of gaining hit from talents at all. That seems like it may be a bad talent to change/remove.

The MM one is worthless regardless. With 3 points it gives a 3% bonus to hit. Now, maybe I'm missing something but even with 300 hit, 3% of that would be +3 hit.

I don't see how that is beneficial at all...

Unless, like I said, I'm not understanding how the talent works at all.

[Adnoz]

The MM one is worthless regardless. With 3 points it gives a 3% bonus to hit. Now, maybe I'm missing something but even with 300 hit, 3% of that would be +3 hit.

I don't see how that is beneficial at all...

Unless, like I said, I'm not understanding how the talent works at all.

That's not how it works. It is the exact same as BD's hit talent is except it only applies to ranged weapons and it only has 3 points, making it +15 hit.

[Therawynn]

The MM one is worthless regardless. With 3 points it gives a 3% bonus to hit. Now, maybe I'm missing something but even with 300 hit, 3% of that would be +3 hit.

I don't see how that is beneficial at all...

Unless, like I said, I'm not understanding how the talent works at all.

3% of 300 hit would be 9 hit. But indeed still not alot, or at least to care about.

I like that they're buffing Bladedancer a bit, but not sure how this will work out in the end. Pretty sure ranger ain't gonna be viable in raids either.
Also please give some boost to saboteur, the spec is SO unic, but no one is using it because it's damage is crap at the moment. Would love to hear booms and bangs more often in raids.

[Zyzyx]

When you look at the bd tree the real things that could potentially be changed are:

improved false blade, vivacity, and dancing steel

There are arguments like needing extra hit for new raid tiers for combat expertise and needing combat culmination for farming without being energy starved as much that can be made for those two skills. If they do change combat culmination I hope they give us an alternative energy supplement in another area.

The coolest things I think they could do with the tree would be to make compound attack a ranged ability if they don't give it deadly dance procs and to make dancing steel a toggle. Imagine being able to turn dancing steel on and off at will. Obviously damage would need to be re-balanced and other considerations taken into account.

Assuming the end goal is to make souls synergize better with eachother, sab is going to require some interesting changes, specifically to bombs and traps. The devs need to decide what they want those abilities to do. They keep adding +damage to fragmentation bomb in the synergy crystal and the greater essence. I don't know if that is an intentional insult to players whol enjoy sab or they were just trying to keep sab from being too powerful. Sab really needs a sizable overhaul ,but daglar posted that they didn't plan on doing that.

[Zyzyx]

3% of 300 hit would be 9 hit. But indeed still not alot, or at least to care about.

I like that they're buffing Bladedancer a bit, but not sure how this will work out in the end. Pretty sure ranger ain't gonna be viable in raids either.
Also please give some boost to saboteur, the spec is SO unic, but no one is using it because it's damage is crap at the moment. Would love to hear booms and bangs more often in raids.

it's 3% hit (as in the stat on your charachter sheet) not 3% of 300 hit

as adnoz said 3% hit is 15

as aillion has said it only affects ranged abilities which is why it doesn't show up on your character sheet.

[Gunzip]

They should also address blade dancers AoE compared to other souls, it's lacking in a huge way.

[Durango]

this will change the bloodstalker to 20rs/34sin/12bd, and it will have weapon barrage and better aoe

No it won't change it. The current points spent into MM are better than the equivalent points spent into BD. MM provides 25% AP increase which is multiplicative with skills with increased AP contribution. The BD change only provides an additive bonus and only to combo point skills. A large portion of the damage for bloodstalker is from EW and the poisons neither of which get anything from the BD changes.

Honestly, I'm a bit worried that the AP contribution increase to poisons and NB weapons enhancements might be going too far. Both already have AP contribution bonuses in their trees and both already make up a sizable chunk of AP scaling for the various builds.

[Durango]

I can agree with this actually. Warriors have what, 2 separate hit talents, and with this change rogue will have Zero? (MM one doesn't count since it's ranged only) I liked having a hit talent to toss some points into while leveling up so i wouldn't miss so much, and it definitely helped when HK first came out and i needed the extra hit. Now rogues will have no way of gaining hit from talents at all. That seems like it may be a bad talent to change/remove.

It is fine. If you do the appropriate progression you are never below hit requirement + 20. People complaining about this just don't want to use the appropriate gear.

[Durango]

[QUOTE=Zyzyx;3496469
EDIT: I think that instead of changing a useful talent we should all be using (combat culmination) they should make the armor pen improved false blade instead.[/quote]

Combat Culmination is pretty much the most useless skill in the game. It has 1 use in a subpar farming spec. That is it. In every other build and in every other situation, it is currently completely useless.

[Durango]

That would be interesting ,but then you run into issues where mobs die before you get a finisher off. It could end up being worse for rogue solo pve.

No, not really.

I think the devs will realize changing combat culmination is a bad idea as it synergizes with the current rift scavenger too well.

I think the devs, like all rogues except Zyzyx, realize that Combat Culmination are quite honestly the 3 most useless points in any soul in any class in the game.

We need to test the changes to leeching poison first. If that can ever be viable self healing option like boea or salvation it would open up a ton of potentially new builds.

Players who know how to play have no issues in PvE farming with rogues. Its a joke and easy. If you are having trouble, you don't know how to play rogue. Relying on CC = you are having trouble.