Upcoming Rogue changes for 1.7

[Zyzyx]

I was in the same boat. Sab was just so unique in the spectrum of MMOs (at least the ones I have played) and the mechanics were fun, though quickly repetitive feeling. So much potential, yet still so far for it to go.

Things that were done to make sab non-viable currently.

1.0 charge booster nerf
Adding high explosives - single target focus for what seemed like a primarily aoe centric soul
poor bonuses from greater essences and synergy crystals - patch notes said frag bomb shouldn't be a dps loss ,but it still is
1.5 residual shrapnel nerf - 15% reduced dot damage after you made the synergy crystal not give any viable bonuses towards this soul was just the nail in the coffin.

If you know bombs and traps are largely unused why continue to give us bonuses for them?

[Auchter]

EM isn't an issue - to get it worth anything you have to go deep MM, and the 51 talent is the only thing along with em making MM pve viable.

Things that unfortunately won't occur to devs:

1. There should be no difference between ranged and melee dps. No melee is not harder - if you think that then you're someone who thinks not standing in fire is hard.

2. RS dps additions need to be toned down and some of the ports restricted to guardian phase only - this is a pvp needed change. Taking a tank spec should not be a dps increasing move.

3. Sab is just pitiful atm. Not worth playing on any level. Even if returned to launch state it would struggle now.

4. Make serrated blades work on ranged abilities, or as elsewhere IQS to become a ranged serrated blades.

Depending on primary soul rogue dps needs to go up by 10%+ to catch up with warriors.

[Zyzyx]

EM isn't an issue - to get it worth anything you have to go deep MM, and the 51 talent is the only thing along with em making MM pve viable.

Things that unfortunately won't occur to devs:

1. There should be no difference between ranged and melee dps. No melee is not harder - if you think that then you're someone who thinks not standing in fire is hard.

2. RS dps additions need to be toned down and some of the ports restricted to guardian phase only - this is a pvp needed change. Taking a tank spec should not be a dps increasing move.

3. Sab is just pitiful atm. Not worth playing on any level. Even if returned to launch state it would struggle now.

4. Make serrated blades work on ranged abilities, or as elsewhere IQS to become a ranged serrated blades.

Depending on primary soul rogue dps needs to go up by 10%+ to catch up with warriors.

agree with everything but 2

our pvp in comparison to the other 3 callings is so pitiful currently it needs all the help it can get

[Enaki]

Things that were done to make sab non-viable currently.

1.0 charge booster nerf
Adding high explosives - single target focus for what seemed like a primarily aoe centric soul
poor bonuses from greater essences and synergy crystals - patch notes said frag bomb shouldn't be a dps loss ,but it still is
1.5 residual shrapnel nerf - 15% reduced dot damage after you made the synergy crystal not give any viable bonuses towards this soul was just the nail in the coffin.

If you know bombs and traps are largely unused why continue to give us bonuses for them?

Don't forget

• The debuff stacking solution (can't remember when that went in): That gave us little reason to use 2 of our utility charges. Having them in play would have made the rotation a bit lower in DPS but a more interesting to manage.
• Increases to tank hate in 1.6: This made Incriminate a once every 30 second aggro shed instead of a significant group aggro utility. Not that the tank changes weren't needed, but it did lesson the impact of our remaining PVE utility. Granted we got the HK bonus to offset that, but who is using Sab outside of NB fearing Estrode builds enough to get the crystal?

[DTM300]

This is kinda necessary in pvp. Hitting warriors with 11k hp with 150 damage swift shots isn't winnable.

You're proving my point: Necessary.

Necessary = roadblock because it is a must have. Therefore it doesn't allow for other choices because they will straight up underperform.

Ranger and aspects = 10000x garbage compared to MM and munitions. Both PvE AND PvP.

While you can combine them, the fact that you can have 2 munitions vs. only 1 sub-par aspect? Roadblock.

[DTM300]

EM isn't an issue - to get it worth anything you have to go deep MM, and the 51 talent is the only thing along with em making MM pve viable.

Things that unfortunately won't occur to devs:

1. There should be no difference between ranged and melee dps. No melee is not harder - if you think that then you're someone who thinks not standing in fire is hard.

2. RS dps additions need to be toned down and some of the ports restricted to guardian phase only - this is a pvp needed change. Taking a tank spec should not be a dps increasing move.

3. Sab is just pitiful atm. Not worth playing on any level. Even if returned to launch state it would struggle now.

4. Make serrated blades work on ranged abilities, or as elsewhere IQS to become a ranged serrated blades.

Depending on primary soul rogue dps needs to go up by 10%+ to catch up with warriors.

Sorry, you are 100% incorrect about EM. It is the highest contributor of MM damage. This is due to it hitting on every single attack. Whatever your attack hit for, add 200, add 500 (4p). Again, the number fluctuates (quite a lot actually) but it's a straight addition to dps. Silver tipped tops at 20% increase to damage ST and ST only without any target switches, also requires 10 seconds to reach potential. EM starts from shot 1 at potential or close to it (with buffs up).

I'll only touch on this part briefly, but why are you comparing us to warriors? If mages aren't getting nerfed in 1.7, why can't we use their dps as the standard? If mages get nerfed down, then I'd agree with the warrior comparison. Until that info is known, I'd set the bar to how the callings are performing currently and use that as a meter.

Else you're just implying that it's known for a fact that mages will get toned down. I've not seen a post backing that up.

[Puandro]

Melee is harder than ranged. MM is so faceroll easy. I love the Bloodstalker rotation because it isnt so easy.

[DTM300]

Melee is harder than ranged. MM is so faceroll easy. I love the Bloodstalker rotation because it isnt so easy.

Ideally - complex builds/rotations should have the highest potential for damage. This would allow for skill being > gear.

Realistically, this game in it's entirety is not difficult, so I'd rather they just focus on the damage variations vs. The callings before attempting to go down the route of difficult = highest payoff.

I think in general most people get more satisfaction from melee rather than just sitting at range pew pewing. But, that shouldn't determine damage potential either, IMO.

[Durango]

Melee is harder than ranged. MM is so faceroll easy. I love the Bloodstalker rotation because it isnt so easy.

BS rotation really isn't that hard. Port when buff is about to wear off, keep up annihilate/impale, and at least for right now, just do 4/5 pt FBs.

About the same as MM really: maintain 2s cast time shadowfire buff, maintain headshot buff every 60s, build to 5 CP.

The difference is really quite minor.

[Gunzip]

EM isn't an issue - to get it worth anything you have to go deep MM, and the 51 talent is the only thing along with em making MM pve viable.

Things that unfortunately won't occur to devs:

1. There should be no difference between ranged and melee dps. No melee is not harder - if you think that then you're someone who thinks not standing in fire is hard.

2. RS dps additions need to be toned down and some of the ports restricted to guardian phase only - this is a pvp needed change. Taking a tank spec should not be a dps increasing move.

3. Sab is just pitiful atm. Not worth playing on any level. Even if returned to launch state it would struggle now.

4. Make serrated blades work on ranged abilities, or as elsewhere IQS to become a ranged serrated blades.

Depending on primary soul rogue dps needs to go up by 10%+ to catch up with warriors.

You want to nerf rogue pvp even further for what reason? Are you on drugs? Last I checked, warriors use tank builds to pvp with all the time and rogues can't? Pathetic solution on your part!

[Koe]

Last I checked, warriors use tank builds to pvp with all the time and rogues can't? Pathetic solution on your part!

This. Let's take away Light's Hammer, Sweeping Strike, Ragestorm, Discharge, etc.

Warriors go up tank trees for higher PvP DPS and utility, too.

[Puandro]

BS rotation really isn't that hard. Port when buff is about to wear off, keep up annihilate/impale, and at least for right now, just do 4/5 pt FBs.

About the same as MM really: maintain 2s cast time shadowfire buff, maintain headshot buff every 60s, build to 5 CP.

The difference is really quite minor.

When the enemy isn't moving, yah its easy. While i don't find it hard at all, its harder than MM to run a perfect rotation.

[Kasr]

You want to nerf rogue pvp even further for what reason? Are you on drugs? Last I checked, warriors use tank builds to pvp with all the time and rogues can't? Pathetic solution on your part!

He's not on drugs. He plays MM/SIN. Read all 4 again and you will notice they all benefit...his spec! Except #3 but it really doesn't say much all. :-/ Maybe he played it when it was OP and is still mad it was nerfed???

[Tufelhunden]

When the enemy isn't moving, yah its easy. While i don't find it hard at all, its harder than MM to run a perfect rotation.

Way harder. I run both sides, melee and ranged, and ranged is so much easier. To those that say its not, you obviously have not PVP'd against a good, rogue, mage, or cleric.

[Mayi]

Way harder. I run both sides, melee and ranged, and ranged is so much easier. To those that say its not, you obviously have not PVP'd against a good, rogue, mage, or cleric.

Huh? What exactly is hard about pvping as a melee rogue? Pre-1.5 I could agree that it could get rough so I stuck with assassin with slip away, but with lots of self healing now and health taps it's not bad at all.

I think rogue pvp is in a good spot myself, just like warriors are used for the benchmark for pve dps rogues should be used for pvp. Both our melee and ranged builds are now solid.. and sure we have some useless souls, but **** happens. Ranger and BD are both being looked at because they're never used, at least with sab people sometimes use it on estrode.

I hadn't pvped in months and needed a new boot rune because I got the relic last week. By the 3rd WF I had gotten back into the swing of things and went 18-0... MM is really faceroll easy. Melee will die more but is more effective at PKing healers. Melee also die more not because they're less survivable, but because most pvpers are bad and only attack the first target in front of them.