Rogue HK Tank Compendium & Analysis (Patch 1.5 version 1.0)

[Muffin911]

This Compendium is quite lengthy so I divided it into a few parts. It is meant to provide knowledge for rogues tanks in HK, compare the physical damage rogues take compared to cleric tanks and provide recommendations on what changes rogue tanks need to be competitive in the upcoming patch.

*Warning, the things mentioned in section 1.13 include some rogue tank tips and strategies for each HK bosses. If you wish to learn the HK bosses yourself don’t read this section.*

1.1 Frequently asked questions
1.2 Specs
1.3 Hit / Toughness
1.4 Stats
1.5 Enchants
1.6 Consumables
1.7 Rogue Tank Sicaron Results
1.8 Cleric Tank Sicaron Results
1.9 Rogue tank VS Cleric Tank Sicaron Damage Taken October 6th 2011
1.10 **October 12th Sicaron Damage Taken results
1.11 Strength & Weaknesses of Each Tank Classes
1.12 HK bosses rogues can tank
1.13 Rogue Tank Tips & Strategies for each HK Bosses
1.14 Rogue Tank Recommendations
1.15 Thanks
1.16 Feedback
1.17 Rifstalker 1.5 vs 1.6

1.1 FAQS

1. Who am I?

I am an officer and one of the three tanks in Voodoo. I have been tanking since the GSB days in March and have tanked almost every boss in HK including Akylios. Our world first Akylios kill was before 1.5 and I was 1 of the tanks during our first kill. A notable achievement I received was the nickname Paper Tank during our HK progression.

2. Why did I even write this?

While I have not posted very much in the forums in the past, I do read it fairly often. I am writing this in hopes that Trion clearly understands the current situation with rogue tanks & their physical mitigation problems compared to other tanks. May this compendium be useful for them when considering the tanking changes in the near future. I also wanted to give out the information I gathered to the community to help any rogues that desire to tank HK in the future.

3. I can tank GSB / ROS easily, why should I be worried for HK?

The difference I found between HK and other previous raids (especially ROS) is that very few bosses in HK use magical damage. If you’re going to start tanking in HK expect that nearly all bosses you tank will be doing physical damage. Unfortunately this is part of the problems with rogues since their physical mitigation is much lower than cleric or warrior tanks.

4. Should we even use rogue tanks if were beginning HK?

Probably not with the current patch, we simply don’t have all the utilities / physical mitigation warrior & cleric tanks can provide. With that being said, it can certainly be done with a rogue tank. If your guild decides to use a rogue tank it probably should be the third tank. The reason being is because you’ll have trouble using a rogue tank with only 1-2 HK items equipped by the time your guild reaches Sicaron. He can be tanked if the rogue is very well geared or your guild stacks extra healers but it is much easier for similar geared warriors / clerics to tank him with their ability to block.

5. How is physical mitigation calculated?

Dodge > Parry > Armor > Block > Passive/Active > Absorbs = Final Damage Taken

1.2 SPECS

You can use anything spec that fits your play style. I personally have been sticking with the 2 same specs for a very long time but 1.5 did bring out a few interesting variations. I’m not going to explain these because they have been explained many times.

Here are my tanking specs:

Spec 1: 51 RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger (I use this nearly every fights)

Spec 2: 51 RS / 8 Ranger / 7 Bard (I would only use this for a boss that you dodge / parry is a none factor)

Devious completed an excellent guide explaining all the specs, check it out here:

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ing-guide.html


1.3 HIT / TOUGHNESS

320 hit / 200 toughness for all fights excluding Akylios

Akylios has an aura that reduces hit by 130 and toughness by 60
400 hit will reduce your hit to 270 + 50 hit from banner = 320 hit
260 toughness will reduce your toughness to 200

Note: the maximum toughness you can receive without any enchants / lesser essence lens is 252 which is what I currently have.

1.4 STATS

End > Dex > Dodge > Str > Parry
1 dex = .5 AP, 1 crit and 1 dodge
1 Str = .5 AP and 1 Parry

1 End = 19 health after guardian phase with 51 in RS / 5 Enduring (Ranger) / no Bard
1 End = 20 health after guardian phase with 51 in RS / 5 Enduring (Rng) / 5 Good Health (Bard)

1 dex = 1 dodge rating
1 dodge rating = estimated 0.02369% dodge (This % is believed to be really close to the actual value)
42 Dex / Dodge = 1% Dodge
1 parry = estimated 0.01618% parry (This % is believed to be really close to the actual value)

Dodge Soft Cap = 20%?
I can’t confirm this for rogues but it is what it’s rumored to be. This is without any talents / traits. With full HK gear I don’t think you will even reach this. I am fairly close now (18% with no buffs) but I will only obtain about 1% more with full HK relic gear putting me at 19% before talents / traits.

This is purely opinion based but I value the ratio of 1 End = to 2 dex / dodge. Don’t bother with parry as it scales really horrible (I’m only at 6.08% self-buffed parry with about half of my tank gear having Parry, waste of a stat on the relics in my opinion). This is subject to change depending on what the upcoming rogue changes bring.

When you start getting HK gear they will all be upgrades to your previous gear anyways, so just equip them and this will also boost your armor at the same time giving you slightly more physical mitigation every equipment upgrade. There will not be much Min / Maxing from the gear perspective you can do anyways & I would focus your planar attunements on Endurance for the time being.

1.5 ENCHANTS

Best Enchants:

Head = Icewatch bandit rune (11 dex / 8 endurance)
Shoulders = Blazing Toughness rune (9 endurance / 9 dodge)
Chest = Incandescent Indomible Runeshard (only if 20 toughness is needed to reach 200) otherwise either Blazing Resolute Rune (11 endurance) or possibly Blazing Deft Rune (13 Dex) if your health pool is sufficient enough
Glove = Radiant Elusive Rune (6 Parry)
Belt = Mathosian Tumbler’s Rune (10 dex / 6 endurance)
Legs = Crafty Dragonslayer’s Rune (12 dex / 9 endurance)
Feet = The Unseen’s vigilate rune (12 dex / 8 endurance)
Main Hand = Blazing Dexterity Runeshard (10 dex)
Off Hand = Blazing Dexterity Runeshard (10 dex)
Ranged = Blazing Dexterity Runeshard (10 dex)

1.6 CONSUMABLES

What consumables should I use?

1) - Shrouded rune on both weapons for +6 End. If you have a Water Shrouded Rune you’re in luck for the upper part of the instance!

OR

- Weaponstones on both weapons. As a tank you’re always beating on something so it’s a decent DPS upgrade if your raid is a little short DPS for a boss every little bit helps.

2) - Gravemaker Steak +10 End (Stillmore vendor)

3) - If you can afford it, Mighty Agility Serum & Mighty Dex Serum is optimal for most bosses.
Here are the mats required for them (Quite expensive though):

http://rift.zam.com/en/recipe/147782...-Agility-Serum
http://rift.zam.com/en/recipe/481188...exterity-Serum

Don’t ask me why Trion didn’t make a similar one to this last through death.

OR

- Mighty / Heroic Enduring Vial (+35 / +40 Endurance, much less costly than the above and better to use for progression purposes unless you want to farm like a mad man for the Mighty Agility Serums.

4) - Optional (Wrathful Flame, extra damage why not)
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/F5C8B688...Wrathful-Flame

5) - Optional (Gloamsilk Poison sold off a rare vendor near the Artifact Collector, extra damage why not, I may be mistaken but I believe Trion changed this so only one can be active in a raid now. *Need someone to confirm this*.)
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/EFB0E787...oamsilk-Poison

6) - Other optional ones could be used such as the Tempest Mirror, Soul Remnant & Revitalizing Seed depending on their availability. The 60 extra endurance from Revitalizing seed can be pretty handy if you know you’re going to take a lot of damage in a short amount of time (Matron Zamira small adds for example).

[Muffin911]

1.7 ROGUE TANK SICARON RESULTS

1. Rift Guard isn’t included in most parses, did the your test consider this?

Yes it did, RaidRift parses actually include absorption. Thanks to Hellebron & Ianto Jones for clarying this.

Here’s the link to the parse for our Sicaron kill this week (Cleric & Rogue tank was used), click the damage taken tab on the top and a further breakdown of the clerics damage taken or my damage taken can be seen if you click on them.

http://www.raidrifts.com/report/view...44426/1002178/

2. Can you prove this parse includes absorption?

Below are the results of my calculation for Sicaron which proves Rift Guard is accounted for in the parse (Somewhat Long).

My spec for this fight was 51 RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger, the optimal spec for this fight in question is 51 RS / 8 Ranger / 7 Bard but I didn’t have it available last week.

Dodge / Parry are ignored since they don’t apply in this case (Moldering Decay damage strictly)

These were my stats for the Sicaron fight this week:

Self-buffed Health (51RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger): 16753
29% dodge with false blade up (Likely a touch higher with the bard resonance, Not applicable for this fight)
6.30% Parry (slightly higher with bard resonance buff, Not applicable for this fight)
60.15% Physical mitigation from Armor (includes Archon buff & Guardian Steel)
14% Mitigation from Shadow guard
6% Mitigation from Phantom Blow
6% Mitigation from Exceptional Resilience
4% Mitigation from Bolster
10% Mitigation from Power Drain (Archon)
5% Mitigation from Motif of Tenacity (Bard)
35% Absorption from Rift Guard (15% from the skill and 20% from having 51 points into RS)

Reminder on the Order of Mitigation:
Dodge > Parry > Armor > Block > Passive/Active > Absorbs = Final Damage Taken

Rogue Damage Summary:

1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick does 50k damage unmitigated to 1 tank
25k unmitigated damage for 1 Decay Tick (50K split into 2 tanks)
9,963 after Armor (60.15% of 25K mitigated)
8,568 after Shadow Guard (14% of 9,963 mitigated)
8,054 after Phantom Blow (6% of 8,568 mitigated)
7,571 after Planar Resilience (6% of 8,054 mitigated)
7,268 after Bolster (4% of 7,571 mitigated)
6,541 after Power Drain (Archon) (10% of 7,268 mitigated)
6,214 after Motif of Tenacity (Bard) (5% of 6,541 mitigated)
4,039 after RiftGuard Absorb (35% of 6,214 mitigated)

After mitigation, my calculation shows a rogue tank with these stats would take 4,039 damage from 1 moldering decay tick; this considers only Rift Guard absorb (no extra absorb from healers).

My average damage taken based by me on all Moldering Decay ticks was 3681, very close to my calculation above, absorption from healers is likely the difference here.

My max damage taken on a Moldering Decay tick was 4263 (could be the result of Power Drain or Motif of Tenacity falling off before a Moldering Decay tick)

My min damage taken on a Moldering Decay tick was 1079 (likely during the next Moldering Decay after using my Scatter of the Shadows as I would have stacked up more absorption on me or during planar refuge + absorption)

The Max / Min / Avg damage taken can all be viewed with the parse I linked and the parse itself factors in all absorptions in the calculation of the damage taken.

1.8 CLERIC TANK SICARON RESULTS

NOTE: I have never played a cleric tank and have some knowledge of them but certainly not as much as clerics themselves. If any of the below math is wrong please advise me and I will correct it. I believe it to be accurate from the best of my knowledge.

Cleric Results

Quietmode was our cleric tank during the Sicaron fight. His spec was the following:

51 Justicar / 8 Inquisitor / 7 Shaman

Self-buffed health: 16586
72.77% Physical Mitigation from Armor (Archon Buff included)
21.5% Dodge (not applicable for this fight)
20% Parry (not applicable for this fight)
67% block chance to block for 59% of the damage.
15% Mitigation from Shield of Faith
3% Mitigation from Thick Skinned
10% Mitigation from Power Drain (Archon)
5% Mitigation from Motif of Tenacity (Bard)

Cleric Damage Summary:

1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick does 50k damage unmitigated to 1 tank
25k unmitigated damage for 1 Decay Tick (50K split into 2 tanks)
6,808 after Armor (72.77% of 25k mitigated)
5,786 after Shield of faith (15% of 6,808 mitigated)
5,613 after Thicked Skinned (3% of 5,786 mitigated)
5,052 after Power Drain (10% of 5,613 mitigated)
4,799 after Motif of Tenacity (5% of 5,052 mitigated)

* I can’t prove this, but there is a possibility of the extra 10% reduction from Thorvin’s Law actually works on the Moldering Decay, this would add in another 480 damage mitigated if this was the case. If the tooltip of the skill is accurate then it is not meant to work on Moldering Decay *

After mitigation, my calculation shows a cleric with these stats would take 4,799 damage from 1 moldering decay tick; this considers 0 damage absorbed.

His average damage taken based on all Moldering Decay ticks was 2,021. Blocking is fun, enough said.

His max damage taken on a Moldering Decay tick was 3,836 (He was able to absorb a lot more than I was due to blocking moldering decay’s, his absorption from healers would stack up much higher than mine, thus resulting in him taking slightly less maximum damage than me).

His min damage taken on a Moldering Decay tick was 0 (a fully blocked one)

The Max / Min / Avg damage taken can all be viewed with the parse I linked in the 1.7 and the parse itself factors in all absorptions in the calculation of the damage taken.

1.9 ROGUE RANK VS CLERIC TANK SICARON DAMAGE TAKEN OCTOBER 6th 2011

This has been a pretty lengthy Debate and I provided a test below that compares a rogue & cleric tank with similar gear level on Sicaron. If you didn’t read the individual tank result section, this parse INCLUDES rift guard. The test conducted this week was strictly considering Sicaron’s moldering decay damage. To my knowledge, this boss would be the most accurate boss to compare physical mitigation from 2 tanks.

Facts before analysing the parse:

1) Both the cleric tank and myself have the same gear level
2) I did use Scatter of the Shadows / Planar refuge 2 times each during moldering decay
3) Dodge / Parry are not included in the damage taken since Moldering decay cannot be dodge or parried.

The dodge / parry stat comparison shows the cleric tank has a combined 41.5% dodge/Parry and the rogue tank has a combined 35.3% Dodge / Parry. Thus, the cleric tank edges out the rogue tank slightly on avoidance which is not considered for this fight.

The parse can be seen below, click the damage taken tab & the tanks name for the full results.
http://www.raidrifts.com/report/view...44426/1002178/

Sicaron fight lasted 5 mins 51 second
Sicaron hit the cleric tank with 119 Moldering decay. He was hit by all 119 but either fully blocked or partially 78 of them. In the end, only 31 Moldering Decay’s were not blocked at all.
Sicaron hit the rogue tank with 109 Moldering decay. (Scatter of the shadows x2 completely negated the extra 10 that also hit the cleric)
Rogue Tank (Muffintop) received 401,171 damage from Moldering Decay (This includes all absorption)
Cleric Tank (Quietmode) received 240,485 damage from Moldering Decay (This includes all absorption)
Cleric Tank either fully blocked or partially blocked 78 Moldering Decay’s. The blocked amount was for 108,393.

Moldering Decay Damage received strictly: 401,171/240,485 = 1.66817, thus revealing the rogue tank received approx 67% more physical damage than the cleric tank.

Even combining block amount + damage taken for the cleric becomes 348,878. This is still slightly over 50K less damage than the rogue took. Assuming the cleric tank blocked 0 ticks of Moldering Decay, his absorption would have been much less and I believe the rogue would have slightly less damage taken the cleric. This could only be tested if the cleric was not wearing a shield.

This just explains how powerful blocking really is. You’re not only blocking an attack but your also stacking absorption from the healers (essences procs, trinkets procs, abilities, ect.)

Trion, please consider the above when considering Rogue tanking changes.

**1.10 OCTOBER 12th SICARON DAMAGE TAKEN RESULTS

We used a Warrior and Cleric tank for our kill this week. Our Kill was slightly faster than last week so there were 14 less Moldering Decay Ticks.

I don't have Rallyd's (Warrior Tank) spec and stats for the time being but I'll try to obtain them over the next few days. He has similar gear than the cleric tank and myself (Probably marginally lesser geared).

Parse lasted 330 Seconds (5 mins & 30 seconds)

http://www.raidrifts.com/report/view...566422/618082/

196909 Damage taken by the Warrior tank from Moldering Decay Ticks (105 in total)
94816 Damage blocked by the Warrior tank (Either partially Blocked or fully Blocked 75 of 105 Moldering Decay Ticks)
Avg Dmg Taken per tick = 1875
Max = 4127
Min = 0

Now, let's assume the Average for 119 Moldering Decay ticks (since that is what we had in the Sicaron parse the previous week)

**1875 * 119 = 223,125 Damage Taken from all Moldering Decay ticks if we were to consider Rallyd tanking last week.

The end result

223,125 (war tank) vs 401,171 (rogue tank) Damage taken from all Moldering Decay if we were to compare this week's vs last week's result. This means a rogue tank took 80% more damage than a warrior tank from Sicaron's Moldering Decay

Cleric Tank Result

216897 Damage taken by the Cleric Tank from Moldering Decay Ticks (105 in total)
94733 Damage blocked by the Cleric tank (Either partially Blocked or fully Blocked 67 of 105 Moldering Decay)
Avg Dmg Taken per tick = 2066
Max = 4369
Min = 0

Now, let's assume the Average for 119 Moldering Decay ticks (since that is what we had in the Sicaron parse the previous week)
**2066 * 119 = 245,854 Damage Taken from all Moldering Decay ticks if we were to consider this week's Sicaron parse with the cleric tank last week (Practically Identical from last weeks 240,485 Damage Taken).

A reminder that Section 1.9 showed us that a rogue tank took 67% more damage than a cleric tank from Sicaron's Moldering Decay which would have given practically identical results this week.

The very small difference may be explained by the extra 1.7% Moldering decays he had blocked last week.

He blocked 78 of 119 Moldering Decay ticks last week (65.5% were blocked)
He blocked 67 of 105 Moldering Decay this week (63.8% were blocked)

The end result

[B] 245,854 (cleric tank) vs 401,171 (rogue tank) Damage taken from all Moldering Decay if we were to compare this week vs last week's result.

**We tried to use only 1 tank on Sicaron in our earlier attempts (we got him to 16% with ONLY 1 Warrior tank, this means the base damage of Moldering Decay before Mitigation is 50K instead of 25K.

Here's our longest parse result using only 1 tank (4 minutes @ 41 seconds):

http://www.raidrifts.com/report/view...414449/456639/

Rallyd (warrior tank was our tank for this).

284964 Damage Taken from Moldering Decay Ticks (88 in total)
179981 Damage blocked by the Warrior tank (Either partially Blocked or fully Blocked 71 of 88 Moldering Decay Ticks)
3238 Avg Dmg Taken per tick
Max 8276
Min 910

Now, let's assume the Average for 119 Moldering Decay ticks (since that is what we had in the Sicaron parse the previous week)
**3238 * 119 = 385,322 Damage Taken from all Moldering Decay ticks if we were to consider the warrior tank SOLO tanking last week.

The end result

385,322 damage taken (Warrior tank) From 50K UNMITIGATED Physical Attack VS 401,171 damage taken (Rogue Tank) From 25K UNMITIGATED Physical attack from all Moldering Decay if we were to compare this week vs last week's result.

**Yes that's right you read it right folks. From 50K UNMITIGATED physical damage, A warrior still takes less total damage on Sicaron than a Rogue tank takes from 25K UNMITIGATED physical attack.

Now let's compare my last week's result had I (Rogue Tank) solo tanked Sicaron

401,171 * 2 = 802,342 Damage Taken
7362 Avg Damage Taken per Tick
Max 8526
Min 2058

The End Result from a 50K UNMITIGATED physical attack (All tanks have similar stats with the warrior marginally lesser geared):

802,342 Damage Taken by a rogue tank from 109 Moldering Decay ticks (I was immune for 10 from Scatter of the shadows).
409,708 Damage Taken by a cleric tank from 119 Molding Decay Ticks (67% block rate)
385,322 Damage Taken by a warrior tank from 119 Moldering Decay ticks (The parses show his block rate @ about 70% but I'll get the actual stats from him)

CONCLUSION:

**From a 50K UNMITIGATED physical attack
A rogue with equal gear takes 108% more damage than a Warrior
A rogue with equal gear takes 96% more damage than a cleric

**From a 25K UNMITIGATED Physical attack,

A rogue with equal gear takes 80% more damage than a warrior
A rogue with equal gear takes 67% more damage than a cleric

Some of you may say well a 50K UNMITIGATED physical attack isn't realistic if it only considers that 1 Situation in the game (tank solo tanking Sicaron)
I can guarantee you that 50K+ UNMITIGATED physical attacks are common during the Akylios encounter.
I also would not be surprised other bosses (such as Matron) hit 50K+ UNMITIGATED physical damage with 1 or 2 debuffs on a tank.

The harder an enemy hits for and the longer the fight goes on for the higher % damage taken difference a rogue will take over the other tanks.

[Muffin911]

1.11 STRENGTH & WEAKNESSES OF ALL TANK CLASSES

Cleric Tanks (Some tanking specs may vary on all these abilities)

Strengths: Very good physical mitigation, can provide backup healing, can resurrect a target with full HP and has an AoE interrupt on 10 sec CD.

Weaknesses: Very weak vs Magical damage, not very mobile, has no purge (this assumes the optimal mitigation tank spec) and can have minor threat issues vs high DPS warriors if there’s no one to heal.

Warrior Tanks (having one is a must for Spotter’s aura, although this may change in 1.6)

Strengths: Good physical mitigation, buff’s the raids damage substantially with spotter’s aura, has both an interrupt and a purge, can close the gap with a charge and can have a different tank spec for magical tanking. Good threat generation.

Weaknesses: not as mobile as a rogue

Rogue tanks:

Strengths: Very good magical mitigation, very mobile, new ranged interrupt ability with 1.5. Very good survival cooldowns but with the catch there all on 2 minute timers. Best threat generation class since 1.5 (AOE and arguably Single Target). Planar Attraction is very good to group up to 5 mobs.

Weaknesses: Poor physical mitigation compared to the other two tanks, no purge, no real worthy utilities in a raid. I may get flamed for this but I find our AoE Threat generation is slightly too good especially compared to clerics.

I say the AoE threat is too high because I have not purposely blink in many situations to ensure I don’t obtain agro from all the hard hitting physical adds. The best example I can give for this is the Akylios fight. If I have too many adds on me I get stomped so fast that I either use all my cooldowns and die after they expire or die before having the time to use them. (Full health to dead in a second). I would not consider this as much of an issue if other tanks aoe threat were increased slightly.

Note: I don’t find the new 1500 buff to the raid for 20 seconds with a minute and a half cooldown very useful. It certainly does have a purpose on some bosses that only use an ability every minute and a half or higher (using it during Matron Zamira @ high stacks may prevent someone from getting killed by dark concussion for example) but the cooldown of it is simple too long for most HK fights. The way I see it is that in most circumstances your raids going to have to survive without it since it will be on coodlown when you want to use it again.

1.12 HK BOSSES ROGUES CAN TANK

a) Assuming HK entry level gear:

Murdantix, Matron Zamira*, Soulrender Zilas, Vlad Prime, Grugonim, King Molinar & Prince Dollin, Inquisitor Garau* and Inwar Darktide
*Bosses that actually favour having rogue tank in my opinion.

b) Assuming full HK gear:

All of them excluding Jornaru in the Akylios fight. I off-tanked Sicaron’s moldering decay’s for the first time this week. I’ve tanked all fights excluding Estrode but with my current gear I’m sure I could tank her now but with more risk of dying than another tank for sure. With that said, the Akylios fight is by far the toughest to tank since I can still get 2 shot by a lasher in P2 – P4 if their buff stacks are too high. I don’t believe a rogue tank could effectively tank Jornaru even in full relic.

1.13 ROGUE TANK TIPS & STRATEGIES FOR EACH HK BOSSES

Now let’s cover all the bosses in HK, I’m going to assume HK entry level gear for all of the lower bosses. For in depth guides on all these bosses you can check our strategies, they also include videos.
http://www.riftstrats.com/

Lastly, I’d just like to add that while I have tanked these bosses; your guild will likely have more success using Cleric / Warrior tanks but it can be done with a rogue tank.

1. Murdantix (Requires 2 tanks)
I successfully tanked him with HK entry level gear on our first kill. You will take much more damage than a warrior or a cleric during the fight but it’s nothing that isn’t healable. Switch tanks after every 4 debuffs and be prepared to use cooldowns especially when the boss is < 20%.

2. Matron Zamira (Requires 2 – 3 tanks, this is the one fight that favours a rogue tank)
I successfully tanked him with HK entry level gear on our first kill. An important thing for this fight is for the two tanks to keep taunting so only one debuff is on a tank at a time. Zamira’s damage gets fairly dangerous with too many debuff on one tank. You should always save your Side Step cooldown for when the small adds are being released. With this cooldown up its fine if you have more than one debuff and tanking Zamira even until the other tank can pick her up. Your Side Step cooldown will be up everytime the adds are being released. You also have other available cooldowns you can use if needed. With the new raid health ability the rogues received in 1.5, I would probably use this when the boss is nearing 25 stacks. Sub 40% Zamira uses magical attacks making rogue tanks less likely to be killed at this point.

3. Soulrender Zilas (Requires at least 1 tank, but easier with 2 especially if you’re doing him for the first time)
I was the off tank for this boss on our first kill. This was during 1.4 with no interrupts so we had a dedicated person to interrupt the imps that heal Zilas. With the available interrupt now just make sure to keep those imps interrupted and you can even pick up the adds on the bridge leading to the platform and blink / flashback in time if Zilas is about to do Soulrender’s graps. Worst case you can also survive with your Scatter of the Shadows if you were slow and know you will get hit by it. I’ve never tried to MT him but I’m certain other rogue tanks have. I could easily do it with my current gear level.

4. Vlad Prime (2-3 tanks)
Not a whole lot of explanation for this one, a HK entry gear rogue tank is probably better off-tanking adds than vlad himself.

5. Sicaron (2 tanks)
Forget trying to tank him as a rogue with HK entry gear, enough said.

6. King Molinar and Prince Dollin (2 tanks with one being a mage)
I’ve tanked king Molinar for the first 50% in the beginning when he was not mathematically possible and actually hitting harder than he is now with his cursed blows. Our new RS interrupt also helps quite a bit on this fight. He is now doable as a rogue tank with HK entry gear but obviously easy for the other tanks.

7. Estrode (1 tank)
Forget trying to tank her as a rogue with HK entry gear, enough said.

8. Grugonim (2-3 tanks)
Depending on your strategy for this boss, using 3 tanks is fine for a rogue tank but if your only using 2 tanks than I would not recommend using a rogue tank. I dipped pretty low with my current gear when we 2 tanked him this week. I would certainly have been dead with HK entry level gear on our kill this week. 3 tanking him also allows you to have your cooldowns up anytime you’re close to a death situation. This is not the case with only 2 tanks.

9. Inquisitor Garau (1 tank)
Can either use a rogue tank or a warrior Void knight tank here. The damage on the tank in this fight is purely magical (water based). Putting on some water resist is important (Anything over 200 buffed should be fine, the more the better though). As long as your Rift Guard doesn’t fall off during an obliterate you will take close to 4k dmg per tick from it. (I take close 3500 but that’s with close to 300 Water resist). Just make sure your rift guard doesn’t fall and you’re golden.

10. Inwar Darktide (2 tank)
There’s not really a whole lot of explanation for this one. I’ve only tanked the ranged side (Undertow) in the past. I’m pretty sure a rogue tank could be used on the melee side (Rot Jaw) as well but I just haven’t done it yet. It’s fairly straightforward for tanking the bosses and they don’t hit incredibly hard. This fight is more focused on proper coordination from the raid.

11. Akylios (3 tanks)
I won’t comment on this fight yet since he has not been killed by many guilds at this time. It requires much more coordination than any previous fights in HK. You can watch our world first kill video and notice I got stomped twice there in the earlier phases (this was pre 1.5). The only thing I will say is Don’t bother using a rogue tank for Jornaru, getting 2 shot by him isn’t fun.

[Muffin911]

1.14 ROGUE TANK RECOMMENDATIONS

While 1.5 did certainly help out rogue with physical mitigation, we are still not even close to a league with clerics or warriors. There have been some really good suggestions that I have read in the past on these forums and I will provide my opinion as well.

**The following 2 posts on the PTS forums also talk about Rogue Tank suggestions for the 1.6 patch

http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ole-1-6-a.html (Swiftkiss)
http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...structive.html

**The following 2 posts were rogue Suggestions for Patch 1.5, the rogue threat issue was fixed but the remaining issue have yet to be addressed

http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...r-changes.html (lanto jones)
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ftstalker.html (Paikis)

1. More physical Mitigation

I’m not asking to be on even terms with warriors specced for physical mitigation, but I see no reason why a rogue with equal very similar gear takes approx 67% more physical damage than a cleric with way better utilities in a raid environment (Refer to section 1.9). With the current way absorption is calculated, I think the best way to improve our physical mitigation is to have an ability similar to block. Just as I described with my summary of my Sicaron test in section 1.9, block is not only good to prevent incoming damage but absorption from healer trinkets / essences / abilities are accumulated while blocking. This means the next few hit that aren’t blocked are all mitigated with absorption.

Possible Solutions to this:

**I added some math examples from the Sicaron Parse to show what the results would be implementing these suggestions.**

A reminder of the Sicaron Parse on October 6th

http://www.raidrifts.com/report/view...44426/1002178/

A)** Swiftkiss provided suggestions to implement a mechanic for rogue tanks called deflect that would act similar to block. It should be based on one of our stats (something like dodge & parry) so it would scale properly with gear. This would also increase he usefulness of parry at the same time. This would be a viable method to vastly improve rogue tanks physical mitigation.

The math is fairly simple for this one

Refer to section 1.9 for further details on this.

Cleric Tank total damage taken was 240,485
Cleric Tank blocked 78 of 119 Moldering Decay Ticks for a total of 108,393

Rogue Tank total damage taken was 401,171 from 109 Moldering Decay Ticks (Immune for 10 of them while using Scatter of the shadows)
Assuming a new block mecanic was implemented for rogues & with similar gear it provides similar Block Rating & Block Amount than clerics / warriors
Rogue Tank Block Moldering Decay total blocked amount 108,393 (probably slightly less than this since less Moldering Decay ticks were taken, but we'll assuming the same amount)

New Rogue Damage Taken = 292 778 (Not considering extra absorb accumulating from healers while blocking)
Estimated Additional Damage Absorption from healers due to blocking = 30 000 (This value is very hard to quantify and could easily be + / - 20 000)

**New Estimated Rogue Damage Taken according to the Sicaron Parse from October 6th with Option A : 262,778

Cleric Tanks Damage Taken on October 6th was 240,485

B)** Improve the absorption on rift guard while having the skill scale at the same time (Thanks for Paikis & Devious for refining the original suggestion). Keep Rift Guard the same way it is now but add another 1% ADDITIVE *Physical Mitigation ONLY* to it for every 1K health the player has while in Guardian phase. There could be possible variations if they should include buffs as well or strictly Guardian Phase alone and whether it should be Added to the current rift guard or separate from it (if separate this % would have to be higher than 1% per 1k health, I will demonstrate below). Including buffs to the Physical Mitigation factor well would also slightly improve our physical mitigation when using physical awareness skill / clerics searing transfusion skill. This could be beneficial if you know your going to take a lot of damage (Ex: when matron releases her small adds).

Here are some examples to better understand what I mean:

Rogue Tank (me) has 18K health fully raid buffed in Guardian Phase (This is what I currently have)

*Refer to Section 1.7 for these Numbers*

Current Rift Guard (35% Damage Reduction both Magical & Physical)
6,214 Damage Taken on 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay tick Before Rift Guard with my stats
4,039 after RiftGuard Absorb (35% of 6,214 mitigated)
3,681 Avg Dmg Received from 1 Moldering Decay Tick (Planar refuge was popped 2x + healing absorption)
The Avg Dmg gives a difference of 351 from my calculated damage (4,039 - 3,681)

1)

Suggested 1% ADDITIVE TO Rift Guard with my stats (35% + 18% (53%) Pysical Damage Reduction & 35% Magical Reduction)

6,214 Damage Taken on 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay hit Before Rift Guard with my stats
2,921 after Rift Guard Absorb (53% of 6,214 mitigated)
- 351 (the difference between the Average damage taken & the calculated damage from the Sicaron Parse on October 6th, this assumes similar absorption + same cooldowns used)
2,570 New Estimated Average damage taken after healing absorption & planar refuge (This is based off 109 Moldering Decay Ticks)
The healing absorption would likely be not be any different in this case since your not blocking any attacks

**2,570 * 109 = 280,130 NEW Total damage taken from moldering decay's for a rogue tank with my stats with option B) 1).

Cleric Tanks Damage Taken on October 6th was 240,485

2)

Alternative Suggestion: 1.5% NOT ADDITIVE TO Rift Guard with my stats (Rift Guard still exactly the same, but an extra 1.5% per 1k health Physical mitigation is factored in, thus giving me 27% more physical mitigation)

6,214 Damage Taken on 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay tick Before Rift Guard with my stats
4,536 Damage Taken after the new added physical mitigation (27% of 6,214 mitigated with my stats)
2,949 Damage Taken after Rift Guard (35% of 4,536 mitigated)
- 351 (the difference between the Average damage taken & the calculated damage from the Sicaron Parse on October 6th, this assumes similar absorption + same cooldowns used)
2,598 New Estimated Average damage taken after healing absorption & planar refuge (This is based off 109 Moldering Decay Ticks)
The healing absorption would likely be not be any different in this case since your not blocking any attacks

**2,598 * 109 = 283,182 NEW Total damage taken from moldering decay's for a rogue tank with my stats with option B) 2).

Cleric Tanks Damage Taken on October 6th was 240,485

NOTE: These % were only used as examples but I believe provide a fair result

c) Increase rogue armor. After dodge / parry, armor is the first step to mitigate of physical damage. Perhaps increasing the armor multiplier of guardian steel could help reduce the gap in damage. This should be considered with one of the other options.

d) There are certainly many other options available, I just mentioned some simple one that could be incorporated with little changes to gear / rogue skills. My preferred approach would be a combination of both a) & c). More armor would reduce the flat out damage we take and having an ability similar to block would greatly increase our overall mitigation.

2. Better utilities

Throw us a bone here. I do enjoy dancing around with blinks but this brings nothing to the raid. I would really like if one of our finishers provide an offensive / defensive benefit for the raid. The extra health we received with the new 1.5 ability is better than nothing but with a cooldown of 1 minute and 30 seconds it just isn’t reliable enough. I want people to actually want to bring a rogue tank because they can offer something unique that other classes can’t. Just make sure this utility requires a high amount of points in RS soul so someone can’t bypass the tank roll with a modified Riftstalker DPS spec.

3. **Planar Switch removed/improved

Seriously, this skill has been in the Riftstalker soul long enough. It is not completely useless but it could be improved in many ways. People have suggested replacing it with the Saboteur 5 Rapid setup ability and making that ability only usable outside combat. This would allow us to start a fight with our RiftGuard up instead of requiring us to constantly begin with a cooldown until our finishers our up. Ironically, having planar switch in the Saboteur Tree may not be a bad idea either for saboteurs. There are many situations where you start implementing charges on a target but have to detonate early because it is near death. There's the other case when you put 5 shrapnels on a target that strays away from most of the other targets (the tanking is holding threat on all of them but the specific one you have 5 charges on isn't centered so your detonate won't hit the whole pack). Planar Switch would help this case a great deal and being the state of Saboteurs in PvP right now it may actually improve them in that aspect as well.

1.15 THANKS

Lastly, I’d like to thank my guild for letting me tank in HK. I certainly did not begin playing a rogue to tank but I’ve been more than happy to rise to the challenge and dance around with my blinks.

I’d also like to thank the following people:

Devious for his RS tanking guide (referenced in here) & Suggestions on rogue tank
Gery & Mok for correcting me on some simple math on my Sicaron test.
Hellebron & Ianto Jones for confirming RaidRift parses did include absorptions.
Swiftkiss for his suggestions on Rogue tanks and answering a few questions I had.
Paikis for his suggestions on Rogue tanks.
Voodoo guild members for letting a papertank tank HK & their help with the compendium.
The rogue community, while I don’t post very often, I do read a lot of useful information from it.
And anyone else I may have forgotten sorry

1.16 FEEDBACK

Please keep all feedback constructive. I am a human and can make mistakes so if there are any mistakes in some of my calculations or anything you don’t understand I will try my best to explain it. A lot of this is opinion based and I have no issues if you don’t agree with me but please keep it in a constructive manner. I was surprised by the results of the Sicaron test myself, that really showed me how far behind we really are on physical mitigation.

I will try to keep this compendium updated with the patches to the best of my abilities.

[Muffin911]

Section 1.17 RIFSTALKER 1.5 vs 1.6

New Stats Analysis

Below are the results I estimaed from testing them on the PTS. If anyone can confirm the accuracy of these values it would be appreciated.

1 Dext = Aprox +0.04875% chance to deflect (regardless of current dext)
(The value is somewhere between 0.045% and 0.05%, I'm going to assume 0.04875% for now)
**Chance to Deflect does not have diminish returns**

1 Dext = Approx +0.04875% Mitigated damage from Deflect when having between
500-600 Dext due to Diminish returns mitigated by Deflect.

1 Dext = Approx +0.03875% Mitigated damage from Deflect when having between
600-700 Dext due to Diminish returns mitigated by Deflect.

If someone wants to provide lesser dext value feel free to do so, I simply
provided some values with my stats. I'm going to do an educated guess that the
mitigated deflect damage from 1 dext between 400-500 Dext is close to 0.06%.

** Thanks to Radak for providing me with the real Formula for Deflected Amount

** Deflected amount = Dexterity / ( Dexterity + 721 )

In summary:

Every 1 point of dext between 500-600 Dext will grant approx +0.04875% extra mitigated
damage from Deflect. The chance to deflect is not impacted by DR (Stays @ +0.04875%)

Every 1 point of dext between 600-700 dext will grant approx +0.03875% extra mitigated
damage from Deflect. The chance to deflect is not impacted by DR (Stays @ +0.04875%)

Math for Option 1 (51 RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger)

Now, let's see what my Sicaron Parse from 2 weeks ago would result with the new 1.6 changes
For those unaware, I believe Sicaron's moldering decay ticks 7 times for 25K physical damage in 3 seconds.

PTS Stats (Assuming the exact same gear when I tanked Sicaron 2 weeks ago)

29% dodge with bard motif & false blade up (Likely a touch higher with the bard resonance, Not applicable for this fight)
6.30% Parry (slightly higher with bard resonance buff, Not applicable for this fight)

16753 Self Buffed Health
60.15% Armor Mitigation (With Archon Armor Buff)
25.63% chance to deflect for 42.27% (528 Dext with combat pose)
17% Mitigation from Shadow guard (With my current armor, it would push my shadow guard to 17%)
6% Mitigation from Phantom Blow
6% Mitigation from Exceptional Resilience
4% Mitigation from Bolster
10% Mitigation from Power Drain (Archon)
5% Mitigation from Motif of Tenacity (Bard)
35% Absorption from Rift Guard (15% from the skill and 20% from having 51 points into RS)

3,898 (1.6 Damage Taken from 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick assuming it was not deflected)
4,039 (1.5 Damage Taken from 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick

This means if the attack is not deflected, with the current changes in 1.6 we will take

141 less damage from 25k Physical damage (this could mean 1 hit for 25k, 5 hits for 5k each, etc.)
282 less damage from 50k Physical damage (this could mean 1 hit for 50k, 5 hits for 10k each, etc.)

1.5 Avg Damage Taken per 1 Moldering Decay Tick = 3,681
1.6 Avg Damage Taken per 1 Moldering Decay Tick = 3,540 (Deflect not calculated yet)

1.5 Total Damage Taken = 3,681 * 109 = 401,229 (off by 58 due to decimals, real value actually 401,171)
1.6 Total Damage Taken Before Deflect = 3,540 * 109 = 385,860

This means a rogue tank with my stats takes close to 4% less damage on Sicaron Moldering Decay Ticks
with 1.6 changes from a Un-Deflected Attack with the 51 RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger spec.

Now let's throw in Deflect in the equation, below are the stats for 3 similar geared tank classes

Cleric has 67% chance to block for 59% physical damage
Warrior has 71% chance to block for about 50% physical damage
Rogue with my stats has 25.63% chance to deflect for 42.27% physical damage

Now let's consider the amount Deflected with my stats. 25.63% chance to deflect 109 Moldering Decay Ticks
gives 28 of 109 moldering decay ticks will deflected for 42.27% damage.

81 * 3,540 = 286,740 Damage Taken (from attacks that were not deflected)
28 * 3,540 = 99,120 * 57.73% (42.27% mitigated) = 57,222 Damage Taken after deflect mitigation

From 109 25K physical attacks (Sicaron Moldering Decay Ticks)

343,962 = 1.6 New rogue Damage Taken (This accounts for Deflect)
3,156.61 Avg Damage Taken

223,125 = 1.5 Warrior Damage Taken (This was a warrior with SO spec, not optimal physical mitigation spec)
2,047.02 Avg Damage Taken

245,854 = 1.5 Cleric Damage Taken
2,255.54 Avg Damage Taken

Rogue tanks take 54% more damage than warrior tanks with current 1.6 Changes
Rogue tanks take 40% more damage than cleric tanks with current 1.6 Changes

With the deflect mechanic added, a rogue tank with equal gear will ALWAYS take 40% more physical damage than a cleric
and atleast 54% more physical damage than a warrior regardless of the damage taken.

Some of you may say Dodge / Parry isn't accounted for since Modlering Decay cannot be dodge / parried. This is true however,
here are the dodge/parry comparison of the 3 tanks.

Cleric = 41.5% dodge & Parry combined with buffs
Warrior = 37.5% dodge & Parry combined with buffs
Rogue = 35.3% dodge & Parry combined with buffs

With similar gear, rogues are actually in last place in dodge / parry when considering a 51 Riftstalker spec.

Math Option 2 (41 RS / 17 BD / 8 Ranger)

When comparing with 51 RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger

Losses:

784 health
Scatter of the shadows
Physical Wellness
Planar Attraction
5% absorption from Rift Guard
15% crit from Ruthless Staker after planar shifting

Gains:

15% more base dext which provides an extra +3.54% chance to deflect, +3.19% Deflect Mitigated damage, + 1.73% dodge
2% more Mitigation from 3/3 in Bolster
10% Mitigation from Turn the tides when it is activated
Some BD Openers / Finishers (Nothing too amazing)
Another interrupt

PTS Stats (Assuming the exact same gear when I tanked Sicaron 2 weeks ago)

30.73% dodge with bard motif & false blade up (Likely a touch higher with the bard resonance)
6.30% Parry

15,969 Self Buffed health
60.15% Armor Mitigation (With Archon Buff)
29.17% chance to deflect for 45.46% (601 Dext with combat pose)
17% Mitigation from Shadow Guard
6% Mitigation from Phantom Blow
6% Mitigation from Exceptional Resilience
6% Mitigation from Bolster
10% Mitigation from Power Drain (Archon)
5% Mitigation from Motif of Tenacity (Bard)
30% Absorption from Rift guard (15% from the skill and 15% from having 41 points in RS)
Note: 10% Mitigation from Turn the Tide (We'll assume this is actually up 50% of the time for testing purposes (Would be up 0% of the time if offtanking Sicaron Obviously)
10% * 50% Mitigation from Turn the Tide

3,905 (1.6 Damage Taken from 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick assuming it was not deflected)
4,039 (1.5 Damage Taken from 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick

This means if the attack is not deflected, with the current changes in 1.6 we will take

134 less damage from 25k Physical damage (this could mean 1 hit for 25k, 5 hits for 5k each, etc.)
268 less damage from 50k Physical damage (this could mean 1 hit for 50k, 5 hits for 10k each, etc.)

1.5 Avg Damage Taken per 1 Moldering Decay Tick = 3,681
1.6 Avg Damage Taken per 1 Moldering Decay Tick = 3,547 (Deflect not calculated yet)

1.5 Total Damage Taken = 3,681 * 109 = 401,229 (off by 58 due to decimals, real value actually 401,171)
1.6 Total Damage Taken Before Deflect = 3,547 * 109 = 386,623

This means a rogue tank with my stats takes close to 3.8% less damage on Sicaron Moldering Decay Ticks
with 1.6 changes from a Un-Deflected Attack with the 41 RS / 17 BD / 8 Ranger spec.

Now let's throw in Deflect in the equation, below are the stats for 3 similar geared tank classes

Cleric has 67% chance to block for 59% physical damage
Warrior has 71% chance to block for about 50% physical damage
Rogue with my stats has 29.17% chance to deflect for 45.46% physical damage

Now let's consider the amount Deflected with my stats. 29.17% chance to deflect 109 Moldering Decay Ticks
gives 32 of 109 moldering decay ticks deflected for 45.46% damage.

77 * 3,547 = 273,119 Damage Taken (from attacks that were not deflected)
32 * 3,547 = 113,504 * 54.54% (45.46% mitigated) = 61,905 Damage Taken after deflect mitigation

From 109 25K physical attacks (Sicaron Moldering Decay Ticks)

335,024 = 1.6 New rogue Damage Taken (This accounts for Deflect)
3,073.61 Avg Damage Taken

223,125 = 1.5 Warrior Damage Taken (This was a warrior with SO spec, not optimal physical mitigation spec)
2,047.02 Avg Damage Taken

245,854 = 1.5 Cleric Damage Taken
2,255.54 Avg Damage Taken

Rogue tanks take 50% more damage than warrior tanks with current 1.6 Changes
Rogue tanks take 36% more damage than cleric tanks with current 1.6 Changes

With the deflect mechanic added, a rogue tank with equal gear will ALWAYS take 36% more physical damage than a cleric
and atleast 50% more physical damage than a warrior regardless of the damage taken.

**This calculation assumes Turn the tides is activated 50% of the times. The damage Taken would be slightly higher if it were up less than 50% and slightly lower if it were up more
than 50%.

Dodge / Parry Comparison

Cleric = 41.5% dodge & Parry combined with buffs
Warrior = 37.5% dodge & Parry combined with buffs
Rogue = 37.03% dodge & Parry combined with buffs

Still slightly behind all other tanking classes with similar gear on dodge / parry.

Math Option Spec 3 (with full dext spec)

44 RS / 17 BD / 5 Sabo (Maximum Dext purposes)

When comparing with 51 RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger

Losses:

1544 health
Scatter of the shadows
Physical Wellness
4% Mitigation from Bolster
3.5% absorption from Rift Guard

Gains:

30% more base dext which provides an extra +7.09% chance to deflect, +6.05% Deflect Mitigated damage, + 3.46% dodge
10% Mitigation from Turn the tides when it is activated
Some BD Openers / Finishers (Nothing too amazing)
Another interrupt
Sab Adhesive Bomb

32.46% dodge with bard motif & false blade up (Likely a touch higher with the bard resonance. If there is a hard cap my base dodge is
slightly over 20% so I would be over the cap)
6.30% Parry (slightly higher with bard resonance buff, Not applicable for this fight)

15,209 Self Buffed Health
60.15% Armor Mitigation (With Archon Armor Buff)
32.72% chance to deflect for 48.32% (674 Dext with combat pose)
17% Mitigation from Shadow guard (With my current armor, it would push my shadow guard to 17%)
6% Mitigation from Phantom Blow
6% Mitigation from Exceptional Resilience
10% Mitigation from Power Drain (Archon)
5% Mitigation from Motif of Tenacity (Bard)
31.5% Absorption from Rift Guard (15% from the skill and 16.5% from having 44 points into RS)
Note: 10% Mitigation from Turn the Tide (We'll assume this is actually up 50% of the time for testing purposes (Would be up 0% of the time if offtanking Sicaron Obviously)
10% * 50% Mitigation from Turn the Tide

4,065 (1.6 Damage Taken from 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick assuming it was not deflected)
4,039 (1.5 Damage Taken from 1 Sicaron Moldering Decay Tick

This means if the attack is not deflected, with the current changes in 1.6 we will take

26 more damage from 25k Physical damage (this could mean 1 hit for 25k, 5 hits for 5k each, etc.)
52 more damage from 50k Physical damage (this could mean 1 hit for 50k, 5 hits for 10k each, etc.)

1.5 Avg Damage Taken per 1 Moldering Decay Tick = 3,681
1.6 Avg Damage Taken per 1 Moldering Decay Tick = 3,707 (Deflect not calculated yet)

1.5 Total Damage Taken = 3,681 * 109 = 401,229 (off by 58 due to decimals, real value actually 401,171)
1.6 Total Damage Taken Before Deflect = 3,707 * 109 = 404,063

This means a rogue tank with my stats takes close to 1% more damage on Sicaron Moldering Decay Ticks
with 1.6 changes from a Un-Deflected Attack with the 44 RS / 17 BD / 5 Sabo Spec

Now let's throw in Deflect in the equation, below are the stats for 3 similar geared tank classes

Cleric has 67% chance to block for 59% physical damage
Warrior has 71% chance to block for about 50% physical damage
Rogue with my stats has 32.72% chance to deflect for 48.32% physical damage

Now let's consider the amount Deflected with my stats. 32.72% chance to deflect 109 Moldering Decay Ticks
gives 36 of 109 moldering decay ticks deflected for 48.32% damage.

73 * 3,707 = 270,611 Damage Taken (from attacks that were not deflected)
36 * 3,707 = 133,452 * 51.68% (48.32% mitigated) = 68,968 Damage Taken after deflect mitigation

From 109 25K physical attacks (Sicaron Moldering Decay Ticks)

339,629 = 1.6 New rogue Damage Taken (This accounts for Deflect)
3,115.86 Avg Damage Taken

223,125 = 1.5 Warrior Damage Taken (This was a warrior with SO spec, not optimal physical mitigation spec)
2,047.02 Avg Damage Taken

245,854 = 1.5 Cleric Damage Taken
2,255.54 Avg Damage Taken

Rogue tanks take 52% more damage than warrior tanks with current 1.6 Changes
Rogue tanks take 38% more damage than cleric tanks with current 1.6 Changes

With the deflect mechanic added, a rogue tank with equal gear will ALWAYS take 38% more physical damage than a cleric
and atleast 52% more physical damage than a warrior regardless of the damage taken.

**This calculation assumes Turn the tides is activated 50% of the times. The damage Taken would be slightly higher if it were up less than 50% and slightly lower if it were up more
than 50%.

Dodge / Parry Comparison

Cleric = 41.5% dodge & Parry combined with buffs
Warrior = 37.5% dodge & Parry combined with buffs
Rogue = 38.76% dodge & Parry combined with buffs

With this spec, rogues are above warriors on dodge / parry but behind clerics.


Revision 1.1

Changed some wording in Section 1.14 to better clarify things
Added a lot of new Math Estimations in Section 1.14 (Rogue Tank Recommendations)
Added 2 PTS posts for Rogue Tank Suggestions for patch 1.6 in Section 1.14
Modified recommendations for Planar Switch
Added Section 1.10 With October 12th Sicaron Parse Results (included a warrior this week).
Added rogue recommendations from lanto jones & Paikis for patch 1.5 in Section 1.14 (the only one addressed properly was the threat issue)
** was additional or modified content added, if you've read this already just control + f ** and you'll see the new parts.
Updated Thanks list

Revision 1.2

Added Section 1.17
Created new posts with summary of findings
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3297430

[Bluelightt]

I tried to read everything here so if I missed something feel free to tell me, what do you consider HK entry level gear? We are currently 7/11 so still progressing (so obviously we don't have a ton of gear from HK at this point) and post 1.5 we use a rogue tank on every fight we have killed thus far except Estrode. Zilas 1 tanked with a rogue tank this week, Sicaron 2nd week in a row we rogue tanked it (with warrior as the 2nd tank...like I said before spike dmg due to block RNG on a few decays) fairly easily even using less healers than previous wins, Vlad we use rogue tank on him, use rogue tank on Rune King himself as well with pretty minimal healing needed. I'm not saying rogues are the best tanks, I just think you're trying to downplay how good of tanks they actually are now post 1.5. I would agree with your analysis on Estrode, don't even try to use a rogue tank on her.

I, also, agree that rogue tanks could use a bit more utility just in the way of a spotter's order type of debuff, having to run a support warrior if your 1 tank is a rogue or cleric is kind of lame.

[Zyzyx]

woot good stuff thanks muffin man!

[Muffin911]

I tried to read everything here so if I missed something feel free to tell me, what do you consider HK entry level gear? We are currently 7/11 so still progressing (so obviously we don't have a ton of gear from HK at this point) and post 1.5 we use a rogue tank on every fight we have killed thus far except Estrode. Zilas 1 tanked with a rogue tank this week, Sicaron 2nd week in a row we rogue tanked it fairly easily even using less healers than previous wins, Vlad we use rogue tank on him, use rogue tank on Rune King himself as well with pretty minimal healing needed. I'm not saying rogues are the best tanks, I just think you're trying to downplay how good of tanks they actually are now post 1.5. I would agree with your analysis on Estrode, don't even try to use a rogue tank on her.

I, also, agree that rogue tanks could use a bit more utility just in the way of a spotter's order type of debuff, having to run a support warrior if your 1 tank is a rogue or cleric is kind of lame.

By rogue tank entry level HK gear level I meant a rogue tank having maybe 1 or 2 HK items by the time your guild first reaches Sicaron. The higher progressed your guild is the easier it is to use rogue tanks on fights such as Sicaron. I've stated that I've tanked every single boss in HK excluding Estrode. While it certainly isn't totally impossible to use a rogue tank with 1-2 HK pieces on the guilds first Sicaron kill, there is just a much higher chance that the rogue tank will die than a Warrior / Cleric tank would.

I tanked Sicaron this week with relative ease not dying once, but that is with almost complete relic gear. The results of my tests are posted and feel free to evaluate them yourself.

[Arkan24]

thank you !
Can you tell us what a HK death resist look like in your opinion ?
ATM I have :

Endless horror (rogue tank)
Guardian Rites (17endu 24 DR)
Necrotic Rites (DPS 20/20 str/dex 16 DR)
Deathly Hand (Warrior tank with block)
Grave Hand (Cleric Tank with wisdom and block )
Primordial Faeshard Greater

That would be greater if you can write about the sigil in your gears section

[Muffin911]

thank you !
Can you tell us what a HK death resist look like in your opinion ?
ATM I have :

Endless horror (rogue tank)
Guardian Rites (17endu 24 DR)
Necrotic Rites (DPS 20/20 str/dex 16 DR)
Deathly Hand (Warrior tank with block)
Grave Hand (Cleric Tank with wisdom and block )
Primordial Faeshard Greater

That would be greater if you can write about the sigil in your gears section

I'm not sure I understand your question but I don't stack any death resist essences for HK. I have a Water Planar focus with the following essences in:

http://rift.zam.com/en/item/A3BBD6AC...01/High-Waters
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/E38FAE86...Guardian-River
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/B5D1D8E4...1/Flowing-Wall
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/A4BBD6AC...1/Flood-Waters
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/B1F7C480...tective-Bubble
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/94B980A0...01/Flood-Gates

The only fight I actually use this essence is for tanking Garau. It could also be used for tanking Inwar Darktide as well you shouldn't need it for him. My Regular planar focus just has the best Endurance / Dex / Dodge stats I could get on it.

This is what my regular tanking focus looks like

http://rift.zam.com/en/item/A3BBD6AC...01/High-Waters
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/B5D1D8E4...1/Flowing-Wall
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/9FD7ACF2...Endless-Horror
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/84A782C1...aelow%27s-Root
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/FEB3D2F5...Smoldering-Eye
http://rift.zam.com/en/item/FABC8D5601010101/Icy-Winds

[Gery]

[B][COLOR="red"]
3. Soulrender Zilas (Requires at least 1 tank, but easier with 2 especially if you’re doing him for the first time)
I was the off tank for this boss on our first kill. This was during 1.4 with no interrupts so we had a dedicated person to interrupt the imps that heal Zilas. With the available interrupt now just make sure to keep those imps interrupted and you can even pick up the adds on the bridge leading to the platform and blink / flashback in time if Zilas is about to do Soulrender’s graps. Worst case you can also survive with your Scatter of the Shadows if you were slow and know you will get hit by it. I’ve never tried to MT him but I’m certain other rogue tanks have. I could easily do it with my current gear level.

I tanked Zilas on my last run with a warrior grabbing incoming adds and bringing them to center. Incoming damage wasn't a problem and planar vortex was excellent for grabbing the adds in the center and keeping them from the rest of the raid which is something that I've found to be an issue sometimes with other tanks. Also the small adds after beam phase very extremely easy to pick up thanks to planar vortex. My tank gear is a mix of tier 1 mark of achievement gear and HK random drops. So I can confirm that main tanking Zilas is not a problem. Also the ranged interrupt can be used on imps while main tanking by having the imp as focus target and using it with a macro. As it is I would rather have rogue tank than cleric tank on Zilas.

[Arkan24]

Im really surprise you are not tanking with a DR sigil !
I should try with a standard sigil then...

[Muffin911]

I tanked Zilas on my last run with a warrior grabbing incoming adds and bringing them to center. Incoming damage wasn't a problem and planar vortex was excellent for grabbing the adds in the center and keeping them from the rest of the raid which is something that I've found to be an issue sometimes with other tanks. Also the small adds after beam phase very extremely easy to pick up thanks to planar vortex. My tank gear is a mix of tier 1 mark of achievement gear and HK random drops. So I can confirm that main tanking Zilas is not a problem. Also the ranged interrupt can be used on imps while main tanking by having the imp as focus target and using it with a macro. As it is I would rather have rogue tank than cleric tank on Zilas.

Alright thanks, didn't think he'd be a problem for a rogue tanking him he doesn't exactly hit very hard. I'm sure I could solo tank him with ease now but just hadn't done it with HK entry gear and he was also harder at that time than he is now.

[Muffin911]

Im really surprise you are not tanking with a DR sigil !
I should try with a standard sigil then...

Which boss in HK require a DR Planar focus?

I think Murdantix Tar May be death damage but I honestly can't think of any other bosses doing any high amount of death damage. His tar doesn't hit a tank very hard either.

[Gyle]

Thank you very much for writing this.