23LikesIf anything, scale it with END. We have to stack the stuff anyways, may as well make it useful beyond just mroe hitpoints.Originally Posted by Swiftkiss
If anything, scale it with END. We have to stack the stuff anyways, may as well make it useful beyond just mroe hitpoints.
we stack END because we currently take more damage and need the buffer to give healers a chance to keep us up. i've long since stopped stacking END. it's a consideration, but besides parry/dodge for me.
i'd like to see such an ability scale of DEX, Parry (pref) or a mix of Parry and Dodge ("dampening" the blows)
"We are the Red Order within the immortal Chaos. We are Shadowblade."
I'm going to have to disagree with the remark about planar shift being useless. It has a 30 metre range, and transfers all combo points onto that target. I use it for the 30% healing from rift scavenger all the time. Roughly 14 000 hp translates into 840 hp per combo point (or 4200 for 5). I think this is very important, and if you know which mobs are going to be focused first then it becomes easier to use.
Either way really, i'm not fussed, but not AP.
I'm a bit confused, i'm assuming yrou talking about Planar switch.
If your using Planar Switch to transfer points to another target, you wont be healed since rift scavenger only works with mobs that Die with 5 combo points (6% x 5 combo Points). and you cannot use Planar Switch on dead mobs.
When I was referring to this skill it was in in a raiding environment. Sure it has it's uses for trash and whatnot but what is trash what prevents your guild from progression or is it the boss themselves? Even assuming the boss actually has adds included as part of the encounter (Matron / Zilas for example), it does have a purpose but your going to have to survive most of the encounter without being able to use the skill if we take consider using it for rift scavenger purposes.
This is the same case if we consider it for dungeons. Now if we consider it for AoE Grinding with a DPS class it obviously is much better since rift scavenger is your only source of healing and even with the 10 second cooldown on it your health won't be an issue in this case.
Last edited by Muffin911; 10-12-2011 at 06:24 AM.
I think this will refer to the deflect mechanic mentioned in OP which should work in the same fashion to "dampen" the damage.
Where Deflect would work on the a similar mechanic to Block.
Rogue incoming Damage = 1000 (-500 deflect)
Shield Tank incoming damage 1000 = (-500 block)
Deflect Mechanic to scale of Dex, Dodge, Parry or any combination of the 3.
This also combines actual RS Absorption Mechanics with the Avoidance "sales pitch" of RS
Simplest solution to implement, resolves mitigation issues & makes use of scaling
Matrix Analogy (Avoidance):
Neo on the Roof, Dodges all those bullets, but one eventually scraps him hurting him, but still saving his life through avoidance.
Star Wars Analogy (Deflection)
Jedi deflects/ parrys incoming attacks with a lightsabre
You get the picture.
Last edited by Swiftkiss; 10-12-2011 at 06:45 AM.
The Riftstalker is not an avoidance tank. It has never even pretended to be an avoidance tank. It does not have a single point in it's tree that gives avoidance.
Please stop asking/suggesting avoidance tanking, it is complete fail, it doesn't work. Just stop.
Also, our answer to Block is Rift Guard. It absorbs about the same amount of physical damage.
Last edited by Paikis; 10-12-2011 at 07:22 AM.
I actually agree with you Paikis.
What i meant was, when i saw the Riftstalker description when first started the game i read the following:
"The Riftstalker is a defensive specialist who bends the planes to enhance his constitution and shift in and out of the physical dimension. These highly skilled and survivable combatants keep their opponents’ focus while easily evading incoming blows."
After reading this i was "sold" on the idea that the RS was an avoidance tank, and i'm sure i'm not the only one that thought this when they rolled the class, and ill be the first to admit that i got it wrong.
After getting to 50, and started tanking, understanding the class, skills and reading the forums i learnt that its not an avoidance tank and its absorption tank, yourself has said it that there is nothing in the Riftstalker tree to suggest otherwise and i agree.
My suggestion of deflect is to give us a "block" type mechanic since we don't have a shield, and i'm sure you'll agree that after analysis by many other people, block provides a substantial amount mitigation whilst at the same time feeding the illusions of an avoidance tank (which its not)
Just to reiterate that this is only a suggestion, amongst the many other suggestions that yourself, Charlie, Ianto, Muffin, etc have provided, and myself have also suggested scaling Rift Guard in my Post on the PTS forum.
You boyo need stop being so angry. We're all after equality of tanks at the end of the day.
/sipstea
Last edited by Swiftkiss; 10-12-2011 at 08:31 AM.
To have rift guard absorb the same amount amount of damage it would need to another extra 25% absorption vs physical damage according to my math assuming it would be the only thing changed.
4039 is the the damage I take according to my math with all the physical damage reduction accounted for (Power Drain from Archon & Bard Motif included)
Throw in an extra 25% physical mitigation from rift guard
4039 * 75% (25% mitigated) = 3029
This would give the new damage taken from 1 moldering decay tick assuming the exact same mitigation as before & no additional absorption from healers.
The difference between the old and new damage is 4039 - 3029 = 1010.
1010 * 109 Moldering decay ticks (which is how many what I was hit for) = 110090
This gives 110k extra absorption assuming the only changes that were maid is rift guard absorbing an extra 25% physical mitigation
The cleric's total blocked amount for moldering decay was 108393.
So the Extra absorption balances out with the amount blocked by the cleric.
With this change alone, the rogue is only slightly behind but really close to a cleric's physical mitigation.
Original damage taken from all Moldering Decay ticks on Sicaron = 401171
- 110k (new rift guard absorption) = 301081
compared to the clerics current total damage from moldering decay's = 240485.
We would still take a little more physical damage than cleric tanks but our damage would remain consistent compared to having clerics spiking when not blocking.
I believe a change like this is something you'd prefer Paikis.
As for me, I would prefer a deflect mechanic myself along with more physical mitigation strictly for the reason the way absorption from healers (essences / trinket procs / abilities) is factored in the damage taken. I would still be more than pleased with the rift guard improvement (note the extra 25% is strictly vs physical damage & not magical damage) & this would also continue making Endurance the much desired stat as it is now.
If my math was wrong feel free to correct me.
Last edited by Muffin911; 10-12-2011 at 08:07 AM.
Just wanted to clarify that this extra 25% physical mitigation from rift guard would be added separately the 35% from rift guard.
Otherwise, if it was added with the current rift guard this would end up having only taking 40% of 6,214 (Damage calculated with my stats / same damage reduction) which would give us 2,500 damage taken without healing absorption from a 25K physical attack.
If the extra rift guard physical mitigation was added with rift guard than my initial suggestion in my post of 17.5% more physical mitigation to rift guard brings rift guard up to 52.5% physical DR.
Taking 47.5% of 6,214 damage then becomes 2952, fairly close to what I had calculated before. Could obviously change this 1 or 2 % to have the same numbers as before.
Again this would have rogues take slightly more damage than cleric / warrior tanks but the damage would remain consistent.
Last edited by Muffin911; 10-12-2011 at 08:26 AM.
But if it doesn't scale its not a long term solution
Deflect is definitely the way forward in that sense.
Again it's gear-dependent and we're seeing the chief limitation of the RS. Block scales with additional gear (to a point) and Rift Guard does not. Dumping additional, flat %-based mitigation on top is not a solution. The difficulty is in getting Rift Guard to scale such as it stops at around the same point that Block will hard cap, with a similar amount of reduction. The problem here is due to Warrior talents -- properly specced, if I'm not mistaken, Warriors will eventually be able to reach a total 95% block rating (65% cap, 30% from talents -- not sure on absorption).
I'd be fine with Rift Guard ultimately giving slightly less overall absorption. It allows for more consistent damage even if it'd be a little bit more overall. It absolutely has to be a small difference, not the gaping maw that it is now. This is still an incredibly difficult balance to strike and I'll be interested in how Trion addresses all of this in 1.6. Currently all classes are headed to a point where gear is going to stop scaling with the next tier of content aside from adding HP (convenient that it's going to be looked at now that Warriors and Clerics are facing the issue RS has had for many months).
Edit: deflection works as well, reactive shields and whatnot. As long as they have a cool, shield-based animation and not that HORRIBLE block sound I'm cool with it. I don't want to play a Warrior even if that's essentially what it will be. Aesthetics are important (less so than balance). Again the key is finding a proper way to scale it.
Last edited by Ianto Jones; 10-12-2011 at 10:26 AM.
I know, an alternative is to have something like 1% extra physical absorb in guardian phase per 1k health on riftguard, this would make it scale much better (it could be based on your health in guardian phase with no buffs or perhaps have it slightly lower then 1% (like 0.95% if it considers your health). With my current gear, this would add in close to 17% extra physical mitigation making rift guard absorb 52% physical damage and would make it scale in future content with gear improvements.But if it doesn't scale its not a long term solution
Deflect is definitely the way forward in that sense.
Last edited by Muffin911; 10-12-2011 at 10:27 AM.
Thank You!! Great stuff
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