Rogue HK Tank Compendium & Analysis (Patch 1.5 version 1.0)

[Bloodbourne]

One other thing I find fascinating here, you are comparing flat mitigation vs blocking mitigation. Despite your flat mitigation being superior(i use that word loosely), you still clearly acknowledge block being vastly superior to your raw mitigation.

I did a similar comparison between 2 warrior specs and got laughed at, despite the numbers showing similar results to your own (though on a much smaller scale). The flat mitigation was better on unblocked hits but overall the higher block/block reduction always won in terms of raw dmg mitigated over the course of a fight.

I'll for sure be keeping an eye on how this plays out with Deflection being added to the mix. I'd like to see rogues bumped up to around even with clerics overall (though I'm biased and want to keep the top spot for tanking). I like knowing I have solid tanks in other classes

[Khuj]

One other thing I find fascinating here, you are comparing flat mitigation vs blocking mitigation. Despite your flat mitigation being superior(i use that word loosely), you still clearly acknowledge block being vastly superior to your raw mitigation.

I did a similar comparison between 2 warrior specs and got laughed at, despite the numbers showing similar results to your own (though on a much smaller scale). The flat mitigation was better on unblocked hits but overall the higher block/block reduction always won in terms of raw dmg mitigated over the course of a fight.

I'll for sure be keeping an eye on how this plays out with Deflection being added to the mix. I'd like to see rogues bumped up to around even with clerics overall (though I'm biased and want to keep the top spot for tanking). I like knowing I have solid tanks in other classes

Keep in mind, for some weird reason, all of your passive/active traits stack upon each other while ours multiplicative. Also, your armor reduces a huge amount (live only) while the highest rogue can only get 60% mitigation from armor. Both of those play in your favor.

If a Warrior's block rate is 80% for 60% of dmg (highest I believe on live, please correct if I'm wrong), that's a physical mitigation of 48%. Highest tanking rogues atm will see about 32% chance to deflect 47% dmg, which is 15% mitigation on physical. You're not exactly taking huge hits...

[Sebb]

Keep in mind, for some weird reason, all of your passive/active traits stack upon each other while ours multiplicative. Also, your armor reduces a huge amount (live only) while the highest rogue can only get 60% mitigation from armor. Both of those play in your favor.

If a Warrior's block rate is 80% for 60% of dmg (highest I believe on live, please correct if I'm wrong), that's a physical mitigation of 48%. Highest tanking rogues atm will see about 32% chance to deflect 47% dmg, which is 15% mitigation on physical. You're not exactly taking huge hits...

The first part of the rogue mitigations being multiplicative is interesting. Ours are a weird mix of some being additive and some not.

Going off this post:

Self-buffed Health (51RS / 8 BD / 7 Ranger): 16753
29% dodge with false blade up (Likely a touch higher with the bard resonance, Not applicable for this fight)
6.30% Parry (slightly higher with bard resonance buff, Not applicable for this fight)
60.15% Physical mitigation from Armor (includes Archon buff & Guardian Steel)
14% Mitigation from Shadow guard
6% Mitigation from Phantom Blow
6% Mitigation from Exceptional Resilience
4% Mitigation from Bolster
10% Mitigation from Power Drain (Archon)
5% Mitigation from Motif of Tenacity (Bard)
35% Absorption from Rift Guard (15% from the skill and 20% from having 51 points into RS)

I'd be expecting your mitigation to be a lot higher than what the parse results are coming out to be.

(1-60.15%)*(1-14%)*(1-6%)*(1-6%)*(1-4%)* = 71% mitigation With Rift Guard absorbing another 35%, you should be substantially better than the results you're parsing. Before RG, you're taking 29% of dmg, which is about 30% more than what a warrior takes. Makes me wonder if there's a bug somewhere in there.

[Muffin911]

The first part of the rogue mitigations being multiplicative is interesting. Ours are a weird mix of some being additive and some not.

Going off this post:

I'd be expecting your mitigation to be a lot higher than what the parse results are coming out to be.

(1-60.15%)*(1-14%)*(1-6%)*(1-6%)*(1-4%)* = 71% mitigation With Rift Guard absorbing another 35%, you should be substantially better than the results you're parsing. Before RG, you're taking 29% of dmg, which is about 30% more than what a warrior takes. Makes me wonder if there's a bug somewhere in there.

Possibly, these are assuming every traits is working correctly and it is calculated the way I believe it to be. I don't think anyone but Trion knows this for sure. To get the best possible results Trion would need to test this themselves between the 3 tank classes to obtain the data on their end (and not from a parser) on what the exact physical damage each tanks take and make proper changes according to these results. I'm not asking rogues to have the exact same physical mitigation than warriors, I just want them to be closer then what they are now so it won't be a burden to use one in a raid situation.

[Sebb]

Possibly, these are assuming every traits is working correctly and it is calculated the way I believe it to be. I don't think anyone but Trion knows this for sure. To get the best possible results Trion would need to test this themselves between the 3 tank classes to obtain the data on their end (and not from a parser) on what the exact physical damage each tanks take and make proper changes according to these results. I'm not asking rogues to have the exact same physical mitigation than warriors, I just want them to be closer then what they are now so it won't be a burden to use one in a raid situation.

That would be the ideal case. But im not too confident in their ability to calculate mitigation predictively. In the mean time, id suggest getting someone to spam an attack and record to change in crits as you sequentially add buffs.

[Muffin911]

That would be the ideal case. But im not too confident in their ability to calculate mitigation predictively. In the mean time, id suggest getting someone to spam an attack and record to change in crits as you sequentially add buffs.

I guess that would be an option. I suggested implementing an easy way to accurately measure damage taken for tanks here (Section 1). This would not take them very long to implement either.

[Bloodbourne]

Keep in mind, for some weird reason, all of your passive/active traits stack upon each other while ours multiplicative. Also, your armor reduces a huge amount (live only) while the highest rogue can only get 60% mitigation from armor. Both of those play in your favor.

If a Warrior's block rate is 80% for 60% of dmg (highest I believe on live, please correct if I'm wrong), that's a physical mitigation of 48%. Highest tanking rogues atm will see about 32% chance to deflect 47% dmg, which is 15% mitigation on physical. You're not exactly taking huge hits...

I'm at 81% block and ~72% reduction. But I'm in a terrible spec Highest possible(long ways away) is 90% and 78% reduction. (Currently I get .014% block per block rating... which is slightly less than I get from the dreaded parry rating)

[Bloodbourne]

Possibly, these are assuming every traits is working correctly and it is calculated the way I believe it to be. I don't think anyone but Trion knows this for sure. To get the best possible results Trion would need to test this themselves between the 3 tank classes to obtain the data on their end (and not from a parser) on what the exact physical damage each tanks take and make proper changes according to these results. I'm not asking rogues to have the exact same physical mitigation than warriors, I just want them to be closer then what they are now so it won't be a burden to use one in a raid situation.

I would also suggest doing independent tests, ability by ability, to see how much dmg is being reduced each time.

It would be rather tough to do, but I think the riftstalker tree is set up in such a way, that it would be possible.

[Muffin911]

I would also suggest doing independent tests, ability by ability, to see how much dmg is being reduced each time.

It would be rather tough to do, but I think the riftstalker tree is set up in such a way, that it would be possible.

I did this late last night, I will be updating my data over the weekend since it will change slightly.

Check it out here

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...lation-12.html

[Bloodbourne]

I did this late last night, I will be updating my data over the weekend since it will change slightly.

Check it out here

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...lation-12.html

Nice, now I'll have to do some testing too... with the upcoming 1.6 changes, it's going to be very important for warriors to know where they stand in this department. Losing 50% (current PTS is 55% >.<) armor buff is kinda huge

[Muffin911]

Nice, now I'll have to do some testing too... with the upcoming 1.6 changes, it's going to be very important for warriors to know where they stand in this department. Losing 50% (current PTS is 55% >.<) armor buff is kinda huge

From what Atrius said about this is that they just can't keep improving armor value or warriors will end up taking next to no damage. They are making part of it scale with Health instead which is something similar to this we have always wanted for rogues. Whether or not this scaling will cover the lower armor difference is what will need to be tested.