Changes to Riftstalker.

[Razaden]

I tank but not as a main. I have not tanked at 50 as a warrior but I have as a rogue. One thing I see among both is the need for rogues to multi task. Multi tasking is not a bad thing but with not so good aoe threat and limited aoe abilites it causes us to lose focus on one thing or another ( buffs, lost mob, boss mechanic). From what I see of warriors is they don't have to multitask as much.

Rouge: Rift Guard, Guarded Steel, AOE threat, mechanics, Cooldowns

Warrior: AOE threat, mechanics, Cooldowns

I am sure is more but thats what I got off the top of my head. Rogues are quite interesting when it comes to tanking but we do need some adjustment.

One idea I have is like one guy said increase Guardian Phase to 100% armor abd change Guarded Steel to an AOE finisher that increases threat per mob hit or maybe just a flat buff like Guarded Steel. That will help with AOE packs and give us 1 less buff to have up at all times. Never heard of a rogue having an issue with threat on bosses so no needed to have that buff up unless maybe your undergeared.

As far as the one guy goes who doesn't want to be a warrior tank. Leta face it warriors make tanking easy and seems the only way to bring rogues in line with them is to pull a few things from them since thay don't seem to have too many issues.

So as a list for issues I say here are the main ones:

1: Too much multi tasking makes Raid awarness lack
2: Physical mitigation
3: AOE threat

[Taemek]

I've made a similar reply in this thread and also in many other MMO's that deal with the issue of avoidance tanks falling short in raids.

The most effective tank is that which has the most consistent intake of hits and the most consistent intake of damage per hit, provided they can survive that damage. It allows the raid to know what their threshold for healing is and how to plan accordingly. Despite how it may sound; From a numbers perspective, time spent not healing due to avoidance streaks and mana wasted on over healing are all negatives towards the efficiency of the raid. And getting the most out of what you bring is what leads to success.

The only thing I disagree with you on is having the DR increase be tied to 51 points being spent in the tree. 40-44 points should be the threshold for DR increases via RS tree. It's already disappointing being limited in what you can spec and not being able to take talents that might benefit your raid depending on the composition.

I think you slightly misdunderstand what I am suggesting a little.

The passive ability I am suggesting should not be applied by a 51 skill, rather it scales by the amount of points spent in the tree after 12 points have been spent and its tied to the execution of Guard Steel. This allows it to scale as we level.

[Ianto Jones]

I tank but not as a main. I have not tanked at 50 as a warrior but I have as a rogue. One thing I see among both is the need for rogues to multi task. Multi tasking is not a bad thing but with not so good aoe threat and limited aoe abilites it causes us to lose focus on one thing or another ( buffs, lost mob, boss mechanic). From what I see of warriors is they don't have to multitask as much.

Rouge: Rift Guard, Guarded Steel, AOE threat, mechanics, Cooldowns

Warrior: AOE threat, mechanics, Cooldowns

I am sure is more but thats what I got off the top of my head. Rogues are quite interesting when it comes to tanking but we do need some adjustment.

One idea I have is like one guy said increase Guardian Phase to 100% armor abd change Guarded Steel to an AOE finisher that increases threat per mob hit or maybe just a flat buff like Guarded Steel. That will help with AOE packs and give us 1 less buff to have up at all times. Never heard of a rogue having an issue with threat on bosses so no needed to have that buff up unless maybe your undergeared.

As far as the one guy goes who doesn't want to be a warrior tank. Leta face it warriors make tanking easy and seems the only way to bring rogues in line with them is to pull a few things from them since thay don't seem to have too many issues.

So as a list for issues I say here are the main ones:

1: Too much multi tasking makes Raid awarness lack
2: Physical mitigation
3: AOE threat

The manic playstyle of Riftstalker isn't what's holding it back -- that's what makes it fun. More to do than a Warrior with a shorter GCD = more activity to achieve the same result. The last thing I want is for RS to become 'easier' in that sense.

[Vandalism]

I think you slightly misdunderstand what I am suggesting a little.

The passive ability I am suggesting should not be applied by a 51 skill, rather it scales by the amount of points spent in the tree after 12 points have been spent and its tied to the execution of Guard Steel. This allows it to scale as we level.

I did understand what you meant, I just did a bad job of explaining why I disagreed.

It's too much like the improved rift guard talent now, and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't much care for that design due to the fact that the trees have built in talents that are aimed more towards PVP or solo utility. You are forced to take them just to buff it if you want viability.

Granted though, that is the problem. RG propping up the spec so much and forcing the 51 pt spec. If they were able to make that scaling passive for DR (through preferably better scaling stat stacking) and have a 44+ pt and 51 pt build both be similarly viable for 2/3 to 3/4 of the raid bosses (sometimes mechanics should force you to prefer different types of tanks for bosses, it keeps the game interesting) then I could live with that as well.

Forcing the taking of all near usless talents to buff that which make us viable doesn't strike me as good design.

[Razaden]

The manic playstyle of Riftstalker isn't what's holding it back -- that's what makes it fun. More to do than a Warrior with a shorter GCD = more activity to achieve the same result. The last thing I want is for RS to become 'easier' in that sense.

I'd rather not be a warrior but if its what I got to do to be viable and not have to strive as hard to be as good as the warrior tank then so be it. As it stands we aren't bad but warrior tanking is just easier for everyone.

We have alot of things to keep up and warriors just stand swing a few times and then fall asleep. Not saying their bad but less maintience compared to rogues. Warriors can make mistakes and live rogues not so much.

[Ianto Jones]

That sounds like less of a problem with the class and more of a problem with you.

And I say that in all kindness.

[Razaden]

It could be a problem with me but seeing as there are multiple threads for buffing RS, then I would say it could be a little of both. I never claimed to be the greatest but I play a game to relax not rack my brain to get the perfect rotation when warriors type /tank and walk away.

I can tank as a rogue but there are some obvious issues that need work hence why cleric and warrior tanks are being taken over rogues atm.

[Bigi]

i like the rogue mechanic as it is. i like the multitasking cant understand people to jelly over a boring warrior tank....

hope they give us a buff better sooner than later

[GenieduMal]

i think RS need tuning !

-"booster recovery" : move it to tier 5 talent, and change it like this: "for rank 1/2/3, generating combo point abilities heal the character for 0,3% / 0,6% / 1% of his max HP"

-"improved guardian phase": decrease the damage penalty for more point invested in RS tree : "the damage penalty decrease of 1% for each point spent in soul above 26"

-"planar switch" : erase this pure garbage ability with a cone attack : "planar strike hit up to 2 targets, 3 targets with 41 points invested in RS tree, 4 targets with 51 points invested in RS tree"

then, review "rift barrier / improved rift barrier" and "rift guard / improved rift guard" , as they were pre nerf ...

[Bart151]

I'd rather not be a warrior but if its what I got to do to be viable and not have to strive as hard to be as good as the warrior tank then so be it. As it stands we aren't bad but warrior tanking is just easier for everyone.

We have alot of things to keep up and warriors just stand swing a few times and then fall asleep. Not saying their bad but less maintience compared to rogues. Warriors can make mistakes and live rogues not so much.

Ontop of that they also do a lot more dmg then us rogues yet were the ones dual wielding. And when I say a lot I mean a lot... My lvl 25 warrior out dmgs both my t2 geared cleric and rogue tanks.... Something is not right with that. For starters remove the damn damage penalties to our stance.

Now I understand were tanks and dmg isn't supposed to be our forte but it does make the experience that much more fun when you know your making a dent....

I also feel our shields are too weak and should stack or more so scale with gear. Our dodge isn't where it should be either in comparison to the other tanks.

[jereome]

Ontop of that they also do a lot more dmg then us rogues yet were the ones dual wielding. And when I say a lot I mean a lot... My lvl 25 warrior out dmgs both my t2 geared cleric and rogue tanks.... Something is not right with that. For starters remove the damn damage penalties to our stance.

Now I understand were tanks and dmg isn't supposed to be our forte but it does make the experience that much more fun when you know your making a dent....

I also feel our shields are too weak and should stack or more so scale with gear. Our dodge isn't where it should be either in comparison to the other tanks.

Shields are fine atm. What should happen is that Improved Guardian Phase should offer alot more passive armor bonus than it is currently. Currently if specced right Riftstalker offers 110% armor bonus with buffs and this number needs to be raised to about 190%. This would bring Riftstalkers armor to within 10% of a warriors.

And if Trion doesnt see Riftstalkers having this much Armor then they should at least raise Riftstalker's avoidance to compensate for this.

[Neringa]

I'd like to remind folks that are talking about PvE / PvP imbalances that could be brought up with positive changes to riftstalker tanking that Trion has shown they don't have a problem with making abilities do one thing in PvE and another thing in PvP.

I know that as my guild's rogue tank in Hammerknell I'm very depressed, and I'm glad that others are experiencing what I am and telling Trion about it, we just can't stay like this.

[Wight]

I hear you, my friends. I have been one of my guild's tanks and the difference when tanking even T1s and T2s from me and the warriors is noticeable. Of course I might just not be skilled enough but I feel I'm doing my job right, from pulling to keeping my main buffs up. The difference is just sad, to the point guildies are starting to say we will only tank with warriors and move rogues to pure DPS (and clerics to heals). Not to say I don't care about PvP, but my main worry is really high-end PvE (I mean raids and expert dungeons). My gear is nice and still I struggle (and my healers struggle) to keep me up on the spikes etc.