Rogue PvE Bible - Updated for 1.3

[Seyon]

darn, past edit time already >.<

pluto: http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...11_RoSplut.png
pluto personal (to show no cipher): http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z..._RoSplut_p.png

warmaster: http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z..._warmaster.png

i got the debuff (dont hit for 15s) followed by him charging away so you can easily notice the variance from 1468 dps (my damage done divided by my time attacking ) and 1337 (my damage divided by the encounter duration, as i didnt participate in almost 10% of the fight). but yes, that fight brings my dps down a good bit as expected.

[Blays]

yeah there you go... a real boss encounter

So both specs do about the same dps.

[Seyon]

i'd consider 10% higher to be a good thing :P (from 13k to 14.6). on top of that having better AoE (my alsbeth, greenscale, potentially herald and duke). the difference also comes into play with player (as we are both different geared i imagine, and one may be better than the other) but in my personal experiences with either spec, unless im going to spend ALOT of time at range, 44 sab falls usually 15% behind.

[Dinadass]

26sab 21sin 19bd totally destroys 44sab in a raid environment. 44sab is nice for experts though since you can be a lot lazier and still do good numbers, plus chaining stun bombs or silences is useful for some trash. Also you can maintain the Spike-Det-Shrap-Det rotation pretty tightly without Fervor/LE.

Flaymar, this is the rotation you should probably have in the Sabdancer section:

Rotation, single target:
Preload 5x Spike Charges, Deadly Strike, Puncture, Spike Charge, Detonate

Then repeat this:
5x Shrapnel Charge, Detonate
3x Spike Charge, Puncture, Deadly Strike, 2x Spike Charge, Detonate

For AOE situations, simply replace Spike with Shrapnel.

This puts your Puncture and Deadly Strike next to each other, which is handy on movement fights or things like Duke/Hylas where you need to back out of melee every now and then.

[Dinadass]

You also have this line:

"Switching to Embers rather than Spike charges does not hurt your dps too much, and is needed on some raid bosses when control is required."

and I have no idea why it is there. I have literally never used Ember Charge since the Charge Booster change several patches ago, nor have I been tempted to.

Also, you mention it doesn't have the AOE silence bomb which is needed on some fights. It's not. Most raid content is immune to it anyways. You DO have Weapon Barrage from Blade Dancer though, which is useful every now and then.

[Seyon]

oh wow, i didnt even notice that. while its possible embers MAY be a raid dps increase, if youre on a raid with no bards, archons, necros.. ele's..

however it isnt the best to say it isnt much of a DPS loss. taking only crits into account (because both have the same crit chance)

spike charge with DD and a 5 stack crits for 1812 on a dummy and hits 6 times. 10872 damage
embers charge with DD and a 5 stack crits for 841 and hits 5 times. 4205 damage.

embers is about 40% the dps of spike (which: note: is youre highest damage ability)

[Dinadass]

The 5% Ember Charge debuff does not stack with other debuffs that your raid should already have up.

[Fwosty]

26sab 21sin 19bd totally destroys 44sab in a raid environment.

When you say "totally destroys" do you mean for all fights? counting time where you are forced to be out of melee range? killing adds? aoeing or single target?

I'm using 27 bd 21 nb 18 sin on melee single target and 44 sab on ranged multi target with decent results.

For the roughly single target fights where you want to be in melee range - Johlen, Warmaster, Uruuluk, etc - isn't 27bd on par with sabdancer and 44 sab superior for ranged/aoe fights?.

-

Also I have the rank 6 daggers and the relic bow so maybe thats why ranged sab, from my limited testing, seems more on par for single target fights?

[Flaymar]

26sab 21sin 19bd totally destroys 44sab in a raid environment. 44sab is nice for experts though since you can be a lot lazier and still do good numbers, plus chaining stun bombs or silences is useful for some trash. Also you can maintain the Spike-Det-Shrap-Det rotation pretty tightly without Fervor/LE.

Flaymar, this is the rotation you should probably have in the Sabdancer section:

Rotation, single target:
Preload 5x Spike Charges, Deadly Strike, Puncture, Spike Charge, Detonate

Then repeat this:
5x Shrapnel Charge, Detonate
3x Spike Charge, Puncture, Deadly Strike, 2x Spike Charge, Detonate

For AOE situations, simply replace Spike with Shrapnel.

This puts your Puncture and Deadly Strike next to each other, which is handy on movement fights or things like Duke/Hylas where you need to back out of melee every now and then.

Assume you mean
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VRcxcb.VV0A0o

I havn't had a chance to test this yet in raid however as you said it does seemt o provide more dps on Dummie. Will use this in main guide, thanks for the help.

Updated main thread with new build and rotation for Sub/Dancer

Will start Research on Range dps tomorrow, i currently play Sabo for Range post 1.3, however i think its time to have another look and some more testing post patch.

[Seyon]

When you say "totally destroys" do you mean for all fights? counting time where you are forced to be out of melee range? killing adds? aoeing or single target?

I'm using 27 bd 21 nb 18 sin on melee single target and 44 sab on ranged multi target with decent results.

For the roughly single target fights where you want to be in melee range - Johlen, Warmaster, Uruuluk, etc - isn't 27bd on par with sabdancer and 44 sab superior for ranged/aoe fights?.

-

Also I have the rank 6 daggers and the relic bow so maybe thats why ranged sab, from my limited testing, seems more on par for single target fights?

the bd sab has better AoE, as your shrap charges do 205% damage as opposed to just 100% with an additional DoT on the main target (note: also using your range weapon). overall though its still a substantial increase.

on "cleave" bosses (lets say you have 2 targets) the ability to spread your spike charge of the 44 sab could come into play

single target melee, no contest

single target range, the 44 sab will still -want- to stand in melee when they can, but no part of the rotation requires it. for the bd/sab you are required to stand in melee range for 2 GCD every 14 GCD. one of those you are able to fluctuate a bit as to when you do it.

in my experience BD sab is better for:
duke (single target melee with a short run away, potential AoE)
inf (same as above without potential AoE)
prince (still not much diffrent :P )
greenscale (single target melee AND AoE melee. i love bdsab here)
warmaster (still same as duke, short of him running as opposed to me running)
plutonus
alsbeth (even with the debuff you can easily joust to get your DS off)

on oracle or harbinger it would depend on how your raid does it. sadly, im on the "range team" (most of our higher DPS are melee only or hindered more by being at range than i am, so we have to move any switch hitters we can to balance it out) and harbinger, i use a different spec entirely as we single target.

[Dinadass]

When you say "totally destroys" do you mean for all fights? counting time where you are forced to be out of melee range? killing adds? aoeing or single target?

I'm using 27 bd 21 nb 18 sin on melee single target and 44 sab on ranged multi target with decent results.

For the roughly single target fights where you want to be in melee range - Johlen, Warmaster, Uruuluk, etc - isn't 27bd on par with sabdancer and 44 sab superior for ranged/aoe fights?.

-

Also I have the rank 6 daggers and the relic bow so maybe thats why ranged sab, from my limited testing, seems more on par for single target fights?

You can still apply charges and detonate while you are moving around. Typical melee builds have their DPS drop tremendously if they have to run between targets, Sabdancer does not. Especially if you know the fight well and can anticipate it. There is basically no raid fight in the game where you should ever not be using an ability every single GCD as Sabdancer aside from Uruluuk when he teleports way far away. I use Sabdancer on every single raid fight in the game and have not ever seen a 44 Sab do better damage on any fight, either in my guild (we have a rogue with relic bow and better gear than me who uses 44 sab often) or from parses posted by other people.

I have a 33.6 mainhand and relic bow and Sabdancer still outparses 44sab for me.

Assume you mean
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VRcxcb.VV0A0o

I havn't had a chance to test this yet in raid however as you said it does seemt o provide more dps on Dummie. Will use this in main guide, thanks for the help.

Updated main thread with new build and rotation for Sub/Dancer

Will start Research on Range dps tomorrow, i currently play Sabo for Range post 1.3, however i think its time to have another look and some more testing post patch.

Move 2 points from Long Range Clipping to Improved Blast Charge. Drop 1 Imp Det for Charge Booster. Move 3 from Ambidex to Combat Efficiency.

[Seyon]

Assume you mean
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0VRcxcb.VV0A0o

I havn't had a chance to test this yet in raid however as you said it does seemt o provide more dps on Dummie. Will use this in main guide, thanks for the help.

Updated main thread with new build and rotation for Sub/Dancer

Will start Research on Range dps tomorrow, i currently play Sabo for Range post 1.3, however i think its time to have another look and some more testing post patch.

i go with more of
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0VRcxcb.VV0G0s

trading 9% dex (would have been nice to have) for basicly 10% energy refund (spending an average of 30 energy per CP and getting 3 energy back per combo point) and trading 1 point from improved det (so 120% rather than 125%. so 120/125 = 4% difference in damage. with 1730 dps that would be a 5 dps loss) for charge booster which made up 21 dps on the same fight.

personally i moved 3 from the hit talent for strikeback/repraisle, but ive probably gotten a total of 4k damage in the past week from that :P but i dont need the hit.

[Cheyenne]

Updated Bard Raiding Spec.

I disagree with Bards stacking Dex, then AP, then Crit.

As shown by Joker225, Coda of Resto and Cadence are the only heals that benefit from scaling. Because of this, I highly recommend raiding bards spec for and stack Crit.

Gearing for crit, the bard could have every other heal or HoT crit.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....EIdqiqskqz.ih
Spec gives a lot of crit and has the AP talent from the ranger soul.

[Dinadass]

I disagree with Bards stacking Dex, then AP, then Crit.

As shown by Joker225, Coda of Resto and Cadence are the only heals that benefit from scaling. Because of this, I highly recommend raiding bards spec for and stack Crit.

Gearing for crit, the bard could have every other heal or HoT crit.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....EIdqiqskqz.ih
Spec gives a lot of crit and has the AP talent from the ranger soul.

Not to mention the things that do scale with AP for bards scale horribly. When I tested Cadence, it was like 20 AP for +1 damage per tick.

[dirksj]

A statement and a question...

I've been leveling with the melee build and so far (up to level 10) it's not actually been bad. I only died on some level 15 rift events at level 7 which I probably should have stayed away from haha. Just put all your points in RS at first.

The question!

When I am presented with quest rewards that include a dex based dagger sorta weapon and a slow strength based weapon should I still be taking the dagger? The rogue abilities all read "weapon damage plus X" which makes me think that I want the slowest mainhand weapon I can possibly find as every strike will then do more damage. Is that true?