Mage Suggestion Thread

[Berzz]

Was just about to post hours worth of parses for 61 pyro but I guess they're useless now. Will have to redo the tests when these changes hit PTS. With these changes, It seems like the difficulty bar for 61 pyro has been lowered significantly...along with the overall damage output. which is puzzling considering the dps was never very high to begin with.

Anyway, here's what I'm pulling with
61 Warlock
http://i.imgur.com/7wMVelD.png
15,900

44/32 Necroele
http://i.imgur.com/vfBjG2B.png
15,900

41/33/2 Pyroharb
http://i.imgur.com/kaHdM0U.png
19,100

61 Pyro (for reference, done before the above changes)
http://i.imgur.com/i95O9sF.png
16,400


Pyroharb goes OOM around 3:30, 61 pyro around 4:20. All of these were done with full consumables including petrified rune, tablet, PS, vial, feast

I think you may be wrong about the pyro changes. Flame Sigil Stacks 5 times, 10% damage each stack. it seams we got 50% additive DPS to pyro? Also with extinguish being off GCD ***and not consuming combust*** all fireballs become instant cast (5 every 10seconds), Along with Fussilade (huge hitter) being able to be used every 10 seconds.

Am I missing something or is pyro going to be an absolute beast? Especially in PvP. I so hope these changes stay!

We got ease of rotation, and mobility in my favorite soul. Defilemancer got me sick of DoT's really hoping i can go pyro4lyfe now.

[Crovack]

...
I don't understand how two different players with two different skill levels will allow you to test your oranges accurately. If I say "here is my 61 pyro parse" and I make a cast Flame Bolt cast Countdown cast Fireball macro, but use the box gear, then go and make a 61 ele 1 button spammer spec as well, how does that allow for any reasonable comparison to anything? Player skill is a huge variable in testing different specs. I'm a fan of Scremo's apples.

P.S. Crit power does affect some specs more than others, so using gear with 42 total crit power, is just silly.

Actually, seeing how different players parse with the same spec and gear does have value, but a lot of this value is lost when we see posts of "X spec @ y dps" with no other information. When you actually post ability damage breakdowns with parses, players can compare where the dps gains/losses were and have better information for adjusting their rotations. It should also be noted that when comparing parse breakdowns across a variety of players and various skill levels, you also attain more valued information: specs with a larger standard deviation of damage are extremely likely to be finding that variation within player skill or crit variations. Two players could have the exact same crit rate, but if one player's crits were going off more often on flame bolt while the other player's crits were more frequently with Fulminate/CBs, there'll likely be a noticeable dps difference.

However, if you happen to have the exact same crit rate on each ability (extremely long parses help with this), then player skill may be a very likely candidate for variances in performance. Being able to recognize that a spec is more or less complex can assist in making decisions as well.

While the community as a whole has varying opinions on the value of spec complexity/difficulty to play, but I do think it is a reasonable assertion that most players believe that additional complexity/difficulty within specs should be rewarded with higher output. Defile was a great example of the how mistakes could be shown to be more punishing than in other specs, which showed that while it was the top dps spec it was also extremely reliant on player skill and parses that varied wildly between different players (some people playing defile got lower numbers than in 36/30, obviously better players got numbers that were much higher).

Ideally the game will include viable specs for 'easy', 'medium' and 'hard' and will then reward those players accordingly. Being able to see the difference between a good player playing a spec and a bad one (with equal gear/pa/etc this becomes more clear), allows devs and the community to make sure numbers are where they want them to be. If, using the old example again, a bad player slamming their face into the keyboard was still pulling higher output with Defile than with 36/30, then it becomes clear that Defile is simply the hands down best spec; where as when Defile required a higher skill level to produce higher results, you can clearly see the cost(higher skill/attention/etc) and benefit (higher dps) is well balanced.

[Kervik]

To clear up some potential misunderstandings, Flame Sigil, Extinguish and Fusillade will still have their current cooldowns. They will just not be able to be used within 10 seconds of each other.

[smellwhat]

Warlock

• Void Barrage now refreshes DoTs with the initial tick of damage.
• Reduced the cooldown of Void Barrage to 20s.
• Expanded Contagion now includes Atrophy in the list of DoTs it allows Radiate Death to spread.
• Fixed an issue where Salvage Corruption and Deathly Pall could be used to apply Death's Door to an enemy with greater than 50% health.

Regarding Consuming agony and Opportunity I'm looking at a couple ideas. One I thought I'd float by you all is making Void Bolt no longer consume Opportunity. Thoughts?

Hi Kervik,

Thanks for spending time on our souls! I don't agree with the opp proc mechanic you are proposing though. Here is an alternative that I think would simplify it. If VB is used with opp proc, then let it also proc an instant cast CA. This could occur at most once every 10 sec. Alternatively, have VB proc CA once every 10 sec or something like that. This way, CA would typically not have to be used with opp proc and void bolt would do this instead. As some others have noted, a reduced cd on void bolt (either with or without opp proc) would be awesome too. But I am more interested in VB proccing CA (somehow).

Void Barrage on 20sec cd = awesome. Refreshing dots on first tick = awesomer. Geez you must love our class.

Regarding Death's Door, it would be nice if this were castable from the beginning of the fight with a 16sec duration but reduced damage. Then greater damage at less than 50%. Alternatively, could we have defile proc Death's Door once damage gets less than 50%? This would again give some badassery to it since it consumes charge. And is there any way to extend the length of DD to 16sec?

On some related warlock notes. I appreciate that Deathly Pall and Salvage corruption will now have a shorter cd. However, I think it would be nice to go one step further. It would be nice if Salvage Corruption was a buff which would stack those dots onto the warlock when the target dies. Then Deathly Pall could be used to apply them to the next target. Not sure what the cooldown should be then (if any) but this would provide the warlock with more of a rogue type of functionality where combo points don't just go away when switching targets.

Really like atrophy spreading with Radiate Death. Perhaps we could get a 5% chance per tick of Devouring Shadows in there to reset the cooldown of Radiate Death?

Thanks again.

[niochua]

What I got from the Pyro changes was:
basic Pyro rotation:
5 Fireballs -> 5 stacks of combust -> Fusillade. Weave in CB on proc.
sounds familiar doesn't it?
Inquis:
5 Life based spells -> 5 stacks of L&D Concord -> BoD.
hmph.

[lol r u mad]

Berzz, you're misreading the Pyro changes, he means none of those spells can be used within 10 seconds of each other, similar to how cinder burst + fulminate work. Either that or I just had a bad reading comprehension failure. I hope you're right, but If I'm Interpreting the changes right, then Pyro dps is going to take a hit

Anyway, standing by the dummy, stats 5623/1842/875. 4cp crystals were used as well ,but no dmg proc trinkets

Edit: actually I don't know if it will take a hit, it needs to be tested. I'm just skeptical because even though pyro's main problem has always been terrible target switching, if you did the rotation well Combust had very little downtime(on one target) It was just extremely difficult. This gets rid of that problem but seems to lower overall dps.

[Berzz]

Berzz, you're misreading the Pyro changes, he means none of those spells can be used within 10 seconds of each other, similar to how cinder burst + fulminate work. Either that or I just had a bad reading comprehension failure. I hope you're right, but If I'm Interpreting the changes right, then Pyro dps is going to take a hit

Anyway, standing by the dummy, stats 5623/1842/875. 4cp crystals were used as well ,but no dmg proc trinkets

figures it was to good to be true. I was more excited for the insant fireballs more then anything.

[Nirrado]

Hi Kervik,

Thanks for spending time on our souls! I don't agree with the opp proc mechanic you are proposing though. Here is an alternative that I think would simplify it. If VB is used with opp proc, then let it also proc an instant cast CA. This could occur at most once every 10 sec. Alternatively, have VB proc CA once every 10 sec or something like that. This way, CA would typically not have to be used with opp proc and void bolt would do this instead. As some others have noted, a reduced cd on void bolt (either with or without opp proc) would be awesome too. But I am more interested in VB proccing CA (somehow).

Personally I really like the idea of void bolt not being able to consume opportunity. I mean Void Bolt is a 1.5-1.4sec cast which is the same as the global, so we actually would see little to no change in dps because when you instant cast and the global begins, it's the same as hardcasting overall. Although I also like the idea of warlock armor having a proc specifically for Consuming Agony. Additionally the void barrage change is pretty awesome to Kervik Overall I'm really happy and quite anxious for all the changes happening.

[nyleva]

Kervik's quest in killing all the mage hybrid specs. With the damage reduction in combust (depending on how much it is) and improved flame bolt no longer affecting slashes, I expect 61 Harb to be equal and way easier now.

With the 61 Pyro changes, seems like there's very little reason to play the hybrid specs now...

Combust balanced around extra combust ticks from Fireball = pretty bad for all hybrids. I guess on the bright side you can macro a ton of 61 Pyro now...

Could we just remove Stormcaller as an AoE soul and make it a ST soul? Don't think most people actually use it to AoE... and I'm tired of Pyro, DoTs, and pet classes.

[Crovack]

... and I'm tired of Pyro, DoTs, and pet classes.

LOL, you're tired of almost half the souls in the class?
Time to pick a different class.

[tteen6789]

I would enjoy Stormcaller to be single target. My favorite soul. Rarely used. And sucks at aoe compared to cab/sab/champ

[Reticularize]

I would enjoy Stormcaller to be single target. My favorite soul. Rarely used. And sucks at aoe compared to cab/sab/champ

whereas dom can spike to 150% of those other souls DPS for a few seconds. I think it balances out somewhat.

For these changes, I can't wait for 2.2!

[tteen6789]

whereas dom can spike to 150% of those other souls DPS for a few seconds. I think it balances out somewhat.

For these changes, I can't wait for 2.2!

KEY WORD: a few seconds. Dom is all about a HUGE burst then barely anything lol.

Stormcaller is trash and every mage knows it. Which is sad. It's a lot of mages favorite soul and ya know. Storm legion? Shouldn't the caller of the storms be buffed just for sake of expansion lol :P

[Reticularize]

KEY WORD: a few seconds. Dom is all about a HUGE burst then barely anything lol.

Stormcaller is trash and every mage knows it. Which is sad. It's a lot of mages favorite soul and ya know. Storm legion? Shouldn't the caller of the storms be buffed just for sake of expansion lol :P

Yea, but after a few seconds we go to about 90% of others aoe until Mass Betrayal is back up, usually tho, the trash are all dead by then.

Storm caller is a good subsoul to make an ST/AoE combo like the harb/sc combo used to be before the ST aspect got nerfed to hell. Yea SC could use a buff, but no I don't think its a necessity atm.

[Floogydoor]

Regarding Consuming agony and Opportunity I'm looking at a couple ideas. One I thought I'd float by you all is making Void Bolt no longer consume Opportunity. Thoughts?

Allow Void Bolt to consume Opportunity, but change Warlock Armor to allow an instant cast Consuming Agony similar to Pyromancer Armor/Cinder Burst. As it stands the armors in the warlock soul are pretty useless.