Archon-Dps? (or other specs)

[Macadami]

The problems of PD in your spam macro:
* Notactive doesn't save you any button presses, it just let's you mash that one button more often for the same result.
* BP has a 1.5s ICD, so quick toggling PD gives you no benefit more often than not.
* Toggles create a noticable amount of delay (about 0.2-0.3s). If you don't believe me search the recent 38/28 threads, where many people talked about it in-depth.

Conclusion:
Don't ever put PD in your all-in-one spam macro. If you want to optimise the last bit of DPS outta your Archon that's cool -- but then do it controlable and reliable by simply manually toggling PD on/off on a seperate button.
(And btw... that is what I'd consider "advanced play". Only do that if you optimised all else of your Archon play, and perfectly handle both your regular duties and encounter mechanics. Hence I don't ever give it as standard adivse.)

Edit: Yeah, VB / LL + PD toggle could beat FB + PD toggle in 1.8 due the updated LL. Haven't tested that since the change to LL. As already posted, putting PD together with VB or FB is a whole different story -- but that wasn't the point of discussion upthread.

For whatever reason the toggling of PD has never worked well with fireball, you can test it yourself, but with void bolt you can get consistent toggles with no lag at all. I spent quite a bit in front of a dummy trying to figure out how and why void bolt gave me such a higher DPS over fireball since the scale didn't make since. Even when only casting FB after surging flare to make it a 1.6 second cast, PD still wouldn't toggle perfectly and still resulted in a lower DPS. Now i'm not max hk or id gear so I do not know if scaling will eventually tip the tide, but for me for now 8 pyro/7 lock is the best option.

[trancepticon]

Please do not ever macro Power Drain into your spam macro as Archon.
So much /facepalm... you got any clue what your spells actually do ?!

lol, yeah!!

power drain is there to use against certain spells/abilities so it doesnt instagib your tank or your team, not to add damage to your abilities.

[Paulmage]

For whatever reason the toggling of PD has never worked well with fireball, you can test it yourself, but with void bolt you can get consistent toggles with no lag at all. I spent quite a bit in front of a dummy trying to figure out how and why void bolt gave me such a higher DPS over fireball since the scale didn't make since. Even when only casting FB after surging flare to make it a 1.6 second cast, PD still wouldn't toggle perfectly and still resulted in a lower DPS. Now i'm not max hk or id gear so I do not know if scaling will eventually tip the tide, but for me for now 8 pyro/7 lock is the best option.

This is correct VB/LL with 6 pyro is the top archon dps build the reason is because with all your archon buffs up VB goes under GCD so no macro lag!

[Nephenee]

If i use a [notactive] PD Macro I also use a Stopcasting Macro to switch on PD manually!

[trancepticon]

Please do not ever macro Power Drain into your spam macro as Archon.
So much /facepalm... you got any clue what your spells actually do ?!

oh god yes. i dont understand why power drain would be included in the macro, its not like archons should be going for moar personal dps over raid utility

[Pixel Monkey]

Power Drain
30 Meter Range
No Cost
Instant
Reduces damage done by 10%. Increases the Mage's damage done by 10%. Consumes Charge while active.

[Macadami]

One day people will realize not to just throw their most undergeared or least performing mage into the archon slot. Yes buffs and debuffs are the number one priority, but you can add a lot of dps played correctly while still providing all the utility required and the spells they have scale decently with gear.

Will they hit the 5k of defilomancer? Probably not, but upwards of 2500 I think is entirely possible while still maintaining everything.

[Abaybay]

As for 15 chloro....you can say it's the healers job etc. but you are support. If you don't need your personal DPS to be high, then why not be the support your raid needs? Each raid is different. If you need a few crappy spot heals and instant cleanses and 300+ hps to help, why not?

Plus, talking the other chloros into letting you keep Raidant Spores (with crystal) up is awesome for great Archon HPS lulz on Ituziel

[BrownsMageNerfDelivery]

As for 15 chloro....you can say it's the healers job etc. but you are support. If you don't need your personal DPS to be high, then why not be the support your raid needs? Each raid is different. If you need a few crappy spot heals and instant cleanses and 300+ hps to help, why not?

Plus, talking the other chloros into letting you keep Raidant Spores (with crystal) up is awesome for great Archon HPS lulz on Ituziel

NO.

For the love of God, this idea must DIE. Unless you take the time to focus on endurance PAs and grind 3 pieces of Soothsayer gear for endurance, you are basically asking for your archon to receive fewer heals and likely die on progression. If you are having healing problems, YOUR HEALERS ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

[Archemys]

Archon is support. I'd just stick the remaining 15 points into chloro and add ruin and vile spores into your rotation.

[BrownsMageNerfDelivery]

Archon is support. I'd just stick the remaining 15 points into chloro and add ruin and vile spores into your rotation.

How many times must I repeat this?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Players who play very casually will not likely grind out additional PA to get endurance hexes or pick up PvP gear for extra endurance. If these players get into a pug raid, they may be relegated to archon, which is a good raid boost for DPS and healing (with Power Drain). So why are people so gung-ho about making them even more subject to likely deaths by depriving them of heals from chloros?

Moreover:

1) Vile Spores doesn't proc Burning Purpose and Pillaging Stone will hit harder. And I suspect VS will suffer the same issues as FB.

2) The Archon should be focusing on maintaining buffs and debuffs. Giving Radiant Spores duty to the Archon may end up with them forgetting to keep auras up -- five minute auras are just long enough to forget easily, and adding a constant little buff to fixate on may provide just enough distraction to forget to refresh auras.

3) On that note, why the **** would you ever have the Archon put up Radiant Spores when the Archon synergy crystal has jack-all to do with healing abilities?

There are probably more, but I am tired. Tired as in I'm going to sleep soon and EXTREMELY tired of people suggesting that you pair 15 chloro with 51 archon. People who continue to propagate this idea should kindly go back to playing a simple rogue DPS spec or go harvest some crafting mats for me to buy on the AH. They should not try to inject their inane, ill-conceived archon "ideas" into the mage forums.

3)

[Abaybay]

Settle down Sparky.

You need to go and read my post again before you go off with non-sense that only shows your misunderstanding of what was said.

You are mixing up what audience you are arguing for. You talk about progression when responding to me and you talk about PUGS when responding to another guy. These are vastly different areas. If you are progressing, there's a good chance your Archon is not some face-eating zombie off the street from Florida. He will be geared correctly and PA'd correctly so that survivability is a non-factor. This opens up his ability to provide whatever the guild needs.

Call me a psycho but I have 4 archon specs to cover whatever the raid may need from DPS, to Purges, to Interrupts, to *gasp* Heals! With your line of thinking you should spec 51 into Archon and save the last 15 points for when we can put 66 points into Archon. Many classes can do a lot of things but why gimp any of them when they can stay max-DPS or max-Heals and have one less thing to worry about if your SUPPORT can provide it? Keep in mind this is in concert with what the Archon would normally be providing. If the main job of the Archon is compromised then you are stretched too thin and that's when you would rejigg in other areas.

If you are a support soul you SUPPORT the raid. If the raid needs a little extra of something that you can provide in tandum with what you normally provide a raid then that is your job.

I sure hope you do something other than Archon for your guild or we just have vastly different ideas on how Archon should be utilized.

[Pixel Monkey]

when i archon the raid has all of the buffs full time, not just the lazy ones, all archon buffs up all the time asap and the boss is doing 10% less damage the whole time FP isnt up (boss/trash pending) and thats a busy job but the biggest reason not to use spores is the crystal. 200 sp is too good not to have and the/a chloro will have the spore crystal which owns.

[BrownsMageNerfDelivery]

Settle down Sparky.

You need to go and read my post again before you go off with non-sense that only shows your misunderstanding of what was said.

You are mixing up what audience you are arguing for. You talk about progression when responding to me and you talk about PUGS when responding to another guy. These are vastly different areas. If you are progressing, there's a good chance your Archon is not some face-eating zombie off the street from Florida. He will be geared correctly and PA'd correctly so that survivability is a non-factor. This opens up his ability to provide whatever the guild needs.

Call me a psycho but I have 4 archon specs to cover whatever the raid may need from DPS, to Purges, to Interrupts, to *gasp* Heals! With your line of thinking you should spec 51 into Archon and save the last 15 points for when we can put 66 points into Archon. Many classes can do a lot of things but why gimp any of them when they can stay max-DPS or max-Heals and have one less thing to worry about if your SUPPORT can provide it? Keep in mind this is in concert with what the Archon would normally be providing. If the main job of the Archon is compromised then you are stretched too thin and that's when you would rejigg in other areas.

If you are a support soul you SUPPORT the raid. If the raid needs a little extra of something that you can provide in tandum with what you normally provide a raid then that is your job.

I sure hope you do something other than Archon for your guild or we just have vastly different ideas on how Archon should be utilized.

Wrong. I said that a pug is not likely to have the PAs and gear to survive, so spending points into chloro and depriving them of heals is an unnecessary risk for a casual player to take. If you purely want to do support then the logical role to take with Archon would be Dominator. Then you have additional utility of a purge, a reflect, an AoE silence, an interrupt, a knockback and a power/energy/mana drain (not often useful, but handy at times). These are support abilities.

If you need your archon to heal, then something is completely ****ed with your raid to start with -- you have bad healers. So why even advocate a spec that is utterly useless unless you are dead set on giving bad advice?

Archons should carry multiple specs, but none of them should involve chloro. Such spot heals are not going to save anyone when having a chloro play more optimally would handle sustained damage and running -icars would both address spike damage and offer additional mitigation across the raid via Protect the Flock (and possibly shielding procs from gear).

I'm calmly but firmly stating that 15 chloro is a terrible use of the remaining points in a 51 archon build, and continuing to mention it as "good" advice for casual players is something that needs to stop. I have no problem with helping other people play better -- I have a problem when someone fails to understand the evidence and continues to proffer bad advice.

[Doobism]

I think the bit people are missing with this 15chloro thing is that you don't get healed from the real chloro's lifegiving veil. That 300+ hps is probably almost entirely being spent on yourself, when it could just come from the real chloro and you can be doing something more productive.

If there's no other chloro, then the argument for 51/15 becomes a bit stronger, but imo not by much.