Why has 33+ Points in Sentinel Been Left as Bad for so Long?

[Malark]

RE: Marked by the light
As for whether it's on GCD or not I don't know, but it lasts 5min... throw it on 'em before the fight starts and forget about it.

Has about the same utility as bubbles in Warden. +HP is +HP... +HP with no cast is even better. If you're statting deep in Sent anyway, you may as well throw it on them.

The single target orb is really apples to oranges but orbs are much more useful overall, much more easier to manage than marked by the light. Marked by the light gets triggered off every heal the target gets, it could be gone as soon as you cast it. Orbs are very valuable for a lot of applications particularly in combination with tidal surge.


It's something that could definitely be looked at. I think Vigilance could maybe also have it's lasting time increased, to perhaps 20 seconds or even a minute.

[Sebb]

51 Sentinel actually isn't that bad, but ...



I'm not sure what Trion could do about it, something to reduce the cast time of Healing Communion maybe, have healing benediction work on 10 targets, delete shared recovery... I dunno.. either way nothing is going to happen.

Nothing is going to happen. But part of the issue is that the first 32 points is dramatically more useful. Why? Primarily serendipity and how it synergizes with other souls. Trion needs to start figuring out that putting really strong abilities into the talent trees doesn't work without making those signature abilities scale with points spend in the soul.

[Synergis]

RE: Marked by the light
As for whether it's on GCD or not I don't know, but it lasts 5min... throw it on 'em before the fight starts and forget about it.

Has about the same utility as bubbles in Warden. +HP is +HP... +HP with no cast is even better. If you're statting deep in Sent anyway, you may as well throw it on them.

The only usefulness I've ever gotten out of 51 sent is in pvp. You'll spend a alot of time drinking though. Far as I'm concerned it's the new "warden". Healing benediction needs a serious cd adjustment as well. Outside of pvp I would never use it for anything. Just goes oom to fast.

[MannSeastone]

I've been running 39 Sent/27 Warden in PvP since 1.6. It's an amazing build and Marked by the Light is exceptionally good once you become accustomed to recasting it. I can confirm that Marked isn't on the GCD.

Marked by Light would actually see some benefit from having a short CD added to it, since it is off the gcd, it could then be macro'd. . .

This wouldn't be beneficial at all, this would be a nerf disguised as a quality of life improvement for people who believe pressing two buttons is too challenging.

[No_Exit]

My 2 cents on some of the higher sent abilities:

Marked by the light
For being as high in the tree as it is.. its pretty darn bad. 5 min and off GCD yes.. but the heals from it are just about worthless and its range is non existent. Its really only worth if if your all stacked and taking aoe damage and your the MT healer spamming HI.

Vigilance
This is just a joke. If this game was more about gradual healing it might be worth something but with the spike damage tanks take... something lasting 10 seconds that only heals if the health drops below 20%, is on a GCD, and has a 2 minute cooldown.... is seriously bad. Id be better off spamming HI then wasting effort popping this. Longer duration or shorter cooldown and it might be worth it at times.

Shared Recovery
PvP ability yes. Worth it even in pvp?... no. Its simply a bad ability. If you can get consistent Serendipity procs then yea i can see its usefulness in pvp, but it still remains a waste of time in PvE. It simply does not heal enough, and since you as a healer are trying to "avoid" damage... your really not doing much with regards to need to heal both of you. Hence.. spamming HI = more worth the time.

Healing Benediction
Power channeled AoE heal.... but channels can be interrupted and at only 6 targets for such a high mana cost while throwing in the 2 minute cool down its usefulness is severely diminished, especially for raids. 51 point ability?... pfft... terrible.

Healers Haste
Long a staple CD for the 34/32 and other builds... its really not as great as people seem to think. 30% for 5 heals on a 2 minute timer... meh. It goes by before you even know it and while it certainly helps... it really should be buffed just a tad. 50% reduction imo... or a 1 minute cool down. I might be asking to much as it doesn't require a huge point investment but i really do think for the top tier ability it should be a little better.

Lasting Invocation
Put in 5 points and its 30% over 8 seconds. First off.. thats 5 POINTS!... man thats quite the cost. Secondly.. 30% over 8 seconds is crap.. especially when you consider that for MT healing.. its all about the spike or shield healing and not about the overtime healing for the vast majority of fights. Its simply not a very good HoT when you consider the cost to get it and what the soul is built around.

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----- Going to throw in 3 more.. because i just want to make points about them:
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Embolden
3 points = 3 extra meters of distance on your AoE heals. 3... little... tiny.. meters. Did the person designing it not really check out the distances with regards to how pathetic 3 meters is. 1 point in the tree per meter?.... seems stupidly high. Should raise the distance to 5 per point imo...

Divine Call
Its pretty nice.. pretty useful, but with all the other tools in hand, an instant cast CD, and Serendipity almost a guaranteed proc on HC.. it seems like it should heal for more for being on a 1 minute CD.

Healers Covenant
Im happy with it, but wonder if it doesnt deserve a slight upgrade due to the nature of the spike damage in the game, and due to the fact that the Sent tree needs loving all together. While it can be used as an oh shii.. ability to recover from a problem... it more often tends to be used to deal with particular mechanics which are often a single attack. This means that while it lasts 10 seconds... properly timed its often only being utilized for half that. The main change im talking about here is less a design of the actual ability and more a way to making going higher in the sent tree more worth it. Id like to see the ability to spend points higher in the Sent tree to lower its CD some. Say.. 3 points... each point lowering CD by 10-15 seconds... for a 30-45 second shortening of the 2 minute CD.

[Synergis]

My 2 cents on some of the higher sent abilities:

Marked by the light
For being as high in the tree as it is.. its pretty darn bad. 5 min and off GCD yes.. but the heals from it are just about worthless and its range is non existent. Its really only worth if if your all stacked and taking aoe damage and your the MT healer spamming HI.

Vigilance
This is just a joke. If this game was more about gradual healing it might be worth something but with the spike damage tanks take... something lasting 10 seconds that only heals if the health drops below 20%, is on a GCD, and has a 2 minute cooldown.... is seriously bad. Id be better off spamming HI then wasting effort popping this. Longer duration or shorter cooldown and it might be worth it at times.

Shared Recovery
PvP ability yes. Worth it even in pvp?... no. Its simply a bad ability. If you can get consistent Serendipity procs then yea i can see its usefulness in pvp, but it still remains a waste of time in PvE. It simply does not heal enough, and since you as a healer are trying to "avoid" damage... your really not doing much with regards to need to heal both of you. Hence.. spamming HI = more worth the time.

Healing Benediction
Power channeled AoE heal.... but channels can be interrupted and at only 6 targets for such a high mana cost while throwing in the 2 minute cool down its usefulness is severely diminished, especially for raids. 51 point ability?... pfft... terrible.

Healers Haste
Long a staple CD for the 34/32 and other builds... its really not as great as people seem to think. 30% for 5 heals on a 2 minute timer... meh. It goes by before you even know it and while it certainly helps... it really should be buffed just a tad. 50% reduction imo... or a 1 minute cool down. I might be asking to much as it doesn't require a huge point investment but i really do think for the top tier ability it should be a little better.

Lasting Invocation
Put in 5 points and its 30% over 8 seconds. First off.. thats 5 POINTS!... man thats quite the cost. Secondly.. 30% over 8 seconds is crap.. especially when you consider that for MT healing.. its all about the spike or shield healing and not about the overtime healing for the vast majority of fights. Its simply not a very good HoT when you consider the cost to get it and what the soul is built around.

-----
----- Going to throw in 3 more.. because i just want to make points about them:
-----

Embolden
3 points = 3 extra meters of distance on your AoE heals. 3... little... tiny.. meters. Did the person designing it not really check out the distances with regards to how pathetic 3 meters is. 1 point in the tree per meter?.... seems stupidly high. Should raise the distance to 5 per point imo...

Divine Call
Its pretty nice.. pretty useful, but with all the other tools in hand, an instant cast CD, and Serendipity almost a guaranteed proc on HC.. it seems like it should heal for more for being on a 1 minute CD.

Healers Covenant
Im happy with it, but wonder if it doesnt deserve a slight upgrade due to the nature of the spike damage in the game, and due to the fact that the Sent tree needs loving all together. While it can be used as an oh shii.. ability to recover from a problem... it more often tends to be used to deal with particular mechanics which are often a single attack. This means that while it lasts 10 seconds... properly timed its often only being utilized for half that. The main change im talking about here is less a design of the actual ability and more a way to making going higher in the sent tree more worth it. Id like to see the ability to spend points higher in the Sent tree to lower its CD some. Say.. 3 points... each point lowering CD by 10-15 seconds... for a 30-45 second shortening of the 2 minute CD.

Careful, they may close this thread for such good ideas.

[Mayi]

My 2 cents on some of the higher sent abilities:

Marked by the light
For being as high in the tree as it is.. its pretty darn bad. 5 min and off GCD yes.. but the heals from it are just about worthless and its range is non existent. Its really only worth if if your all stacked and taking aoe damage and your the MT healer spamming HI.

Vigilance
This is just a joke. If this game was more about gradual healing it might be worth something but with the spike damage tanks take... something lasting 10 seconds that only heals if the health drops below 20%, is on a GCD, and has a 2 minute cooldown.... is seriously bad. Id be better off spamming HI then wasting effort popping this. Longer duration or shorter cooldown and it might be worth it at times.

Shared Recovery
PvP ability yes. Worth it even in pvp?... no. Its simply a bad ability. If you can get consistent Serendipity procs then yea i can see its usefulness in pvp, but it still remains a waste of time in PvE. It simply does not heal enough, and since you as a healer are trying to "avoid" damage... your really not doing much with regards to need to heal both of you. Hence.. spamming HI = more worth the time.

Yea, really if these three abilities were changed 51 sent might be decent. It has the advantage of having the biggest heal in game (by quite a bit) but could be primarily an aoe healing soul.

I'd suggest:

Marked by light - changed to passive buff, increased range on heal (20m), hits 5 (amount of healing could be looked at too)

Vigilence - not sure what to do with this one, maybe change it to a passive as well triggering 3 times a minute whenever the condition is met

Shared Recovery - take off the self heal, keep the 1.5 second cast time and increase the heal on the target. Make it a quick tank heal. Better yet, since it's so high up the tree make it a heal off the GCD. With cast times on most heals an off GCD heal isn't nearly as powerful as you'd think and would require higher sent for serendipity to be good. Add it to the passive in Sentinel as a heal that gets stronger with more points.

Do those and suddenly people would have to think about adding a 51 sent instead of 2 51 puris or 51 chloros.

[Zinbik]

As far as the general perception of 51 Sentinel, being less desirable than say, 51 Purifier? Yes, totally, for reasons beyond even the basic evaluations of individual spells. However, I just want to point out the best part about Vigilance that is always forgotten, particularly when compared with Latent Blaze:

You cannot die with Vigilance.

Your health literally cannot go below 1 health before it triggers. If you took a million points of damage, you would live and end up at with health equal to the healing value on Vigilance + 1. Latent Blaze only procs the heal if, after a hit, you end up between 1 health and 30% health.

Also yes, Marked by the Light has no GCD and no cooldown, meaning that while you're single target healing, you can just constantly put out extra AE healing.

Anyway, resume normal feedback. Back to secret stuff I can't talk about.

[No_Exit]

Yea, really if these three abilities were changed 51 sent might be decent. It has the advantage of having the biggest heal in game (by quite a bit) but could be primarily an aoe healing soul.

I'd suggest:

Id go more with.....

Marked by light - 1 hr buff - Chosen target spreads an additional 3 heals to nearby targets upon receiving healing. Spread heals are 10% of incoming healing to the target from any source.

Vigilence - Mirror it to what Latent blaze does. Then take Latent blaze and turn it into a massive shield instead of a massive heal.

Shared Recovery - Remove it entirely. Put the HC CD reducer i talked about in this slot. ;)

[Synergis]

You cannot die with Vigilance.


Anyway, resume normal feedback. Back to secret stuff I can't talk about.

Heh, good to know, moar secrets plz.

[Sariina]

You cannot die with Vigilance.

That would be cool if the tool tip said this information, or if tool tips in the game were useful in any way shape or form...

"Restores 854 to 852 health if health drops below 20% within 10s."

"Restores 463 health if health drops below 30% within 5 minutes."

How is an end user, other than a slip up by the dev leaking undocumented information, supposed to know that these function in two completely different ways? Can't Vigilance have something like "Prevents health from going below 1 for while active." so that the difference in the two skills is obvious?

[Sariina]

Dang edit timer . . . that "for" shouldn't be in there.

[Hawkmoon0028]

I guess my question is, what's wrong with us having a soul that makes up the glue holding other souls together?

Sent is a great filler- it's been said numerous times in this thread. Hybrid specs rely on the lower point abilities and passives to function well. Sent is an excellent tree to spec into, and not go full out 51.

Those of you advocating change need to be careful what you wish for.

[No_Exit]

AHowever, I just want to point out the best part about Vigilance that is always forgotten, particularly when compared with Latent Blaze:

You cannot die with Vigilance.

Your health literally cannot go below 1 health before it triggers. If you took a million points of damage, you would live and end up at with health equal to the healing value on Vigilance + 1. Latent Blaze only procs the heal if, after a hit, you end up between 1 health and 30% health.

Valid point..

So in a sense you can treat it as another option in addition to HC. However you have to take into account 3 things.

1: Its 10 seconds like HC.. but being that it requires a 20% mark.. its more of a reactive CD. You can use it when a scripted big hit that's guaranteed to be more then 80% of the tanks health is incoming.. but for general use it loses a good amount of usefulness due to the 2 minute CD + 10 second only length. A tank may live by a block/fail to block situation.. and you as a healer can NOT predict when the luck of the draw doesn't favor his health bar most of the time. You can also not always predict the exact damage numbers. This leads to point 2...

2: Since its 20% or lower.. you have to know (being that the CD is 2 minutes and the buff lasts only 10 seconds) that the tank will drop 80%+. If the tank doesn't drop below that mark.. you have a wasted CD on your hands. However as a healer your job is to keep your tank up and if possible max health as much as possible. This is almost a conflict of interest therefor because you don't want your tank dropping that low. Latent blaze is a compromise since its a buff that lasts 5 minutes.. and is slightly higher at 30%. It also has a shorter CD at 45s.

3: The length of the CD and length of the buff is 10 seconds like HC... but the nature of the ability and risk/reward of it mostly prevents it from being used outside a scripted situation and turns it into a CD that is 10x less desirable then HC but at more then double the cost tree-wise despite their equal timers.

[Xenoheart]

I've always felt that the healing cleric spec purposes as such:

1) Purifier: Specializes in damage mitigation
2) Sentinal: Specializes in burst healing
3) Warden: Specializes in heal over time

I feel that 51 purifier does its job magnificantly. And so does warden, their high end skills really stand apart.

I will agree sentinal doesn't quite do it for me, in particular what many mentioned that its all about cost-benefit analyses in that the few skills you gain is far less contributing than what you lose by not going hybrid (along with the skill tree augments).

My suggested changes to high end sentinal with the focus on the above description:

Shared Recovery: Is now a buff on yourself and your target. Any overhealing done to yourself by your skills heals your target, and any overhealing done to your target by you heals yourself. Lasts 5 minutes. CD 20 seconds.

Marked by Light: Self Buff, causes any single target heals to heal 10% of the healing done on up to 2 other party or raid members within 25 meters. Lasts 1 hour. CD 10 seconds.

Vigilance: Reduced CD to 1 minute and its duration by 5 seconds. Clearly describes in tooltip will save a target from certain death.

Healing Benediction: Reduced CD to 1 minute, affects 8 party or raid members, puts an orb of light in the air that cannot be targetted or damaged that channels this ability (takes the channel away from the cleric so they can do other things).

Word of Hope: Now also increase the number of targets affected by marked by light by 1 for every five points above 36 in the sentinal tree.
Oki thats my wishlist. I love sentinal, this would make its end skills just as powerful as the other healing classes.