Cleric DPS is falling behind......again

[NotSure]

HK trash last night in full cabalist I was pulling 11k give or take.. our warriors were pulling 9.5k and sabs 10k.... we head to molinar.. sabs and warriors pulling 2.4k ST (in 1/2 hk gear) pure cabalist in full HK gear pulling 1.3k...

I'll tell you what my ex told me: "You're doing it wrong."

I have full HK BiS, and as a 51 cab, I pulled 2282 single target dps last night on Garau. I was assigned to adds, but no small adds spawned...it was all big single ones in my corner. So realistically I would have been over 2.3k if I wasn't changing directions and hitting different targets.

If you're only getting 1.3k, you need to re-examine your macros and/or your build. Cab/Inq/Sent is the only build you should be dps'ing in as a Cab. Cabicar isn't dps, so make sure you're not running that God awful build when you're looking at dps numbers.

[Merridwyn]

HK trash last night in full cabalist I was pulling 11k give or take.. our warriors were pulling 9.5k and sabs 10k.... we head to molinar.. sabs and warriors pulling 2.4k ST (in 1/2 hk gear) pure cabalist in full HK gear pulling 1.3k...

Cabalist on Molinar? But why?

[Anyasha]

Cabalist on Molinar? But why?

Exactly. Running Cab on Molinar and being upset about low DPS is like running Shards of Light on Murdantix and being upset that your DPS is low. And, ultimately, that isn't the spec being bad - it's you. You should know better than to run a severely sub-optimal spec.

However, I will concede that Cleric ST DPS has indeed fallen behind. Comparing melee Warriors/Rogues to BnJ makes it better but is still not an equal comparison. The bulk of BnJ's damage is hardcasted Bolt of Judgment, which cannot be done on the move. Of course, if melee is running out entirely this is moot, but if melee are simply following a boss (think non-gimped Murdantix strat), BnJ cannot really be compared to melee DPS.

And saying 51Inq "should" do less DPS than melee is a bit silly. I don't remember any rules that say melee should be better than ranged.

Ultimately...Mien of Aggression...people knew it would not keep up as it has such low scalability compared to other classes. Eventually, you gotta rip that bandaid [fix] off, and it bloody hurts.

[aabuster1]

Agree. Cleric DPS is falling behind again because of other class changes. I play a shaman as dps and have noticed other melee have surpassed me, with lesser gear, that did not surpass me before the changes. It is not because they have gotten better or I have gotten worse - it is because of the class changes.

Gear and skill should determine who is best at each role not the class they play.

[Ablle]

At 75% hk geared with t1 raid 2 handed, I compete for top 3 regularily in my druid spec. Maybe its time to get in there and melee with those warriors. As the usual with Trion, whenever a spec gets buffed it does the top deeps. I realize that if your fully hk geared then this spec may not do you justice. In my gear it does extraordinarily well for only neding to use seven buttons, three typically. Time to no longer think of druid as the pos it used to be.

[fD123]

Agree. Cleric DPS is falling behind again because of other class changes. I play a shaman as dps and have noticed other melee have surpassed me, with lesser gear, that did not surpass me before the changes. It is not because they have gotten better or I have gotten worse - it is because of the class changes.

Gear and skill should determine who is best at each role not the class they play.

if you want it to be perfectly balanced around gear and skill go play a FPS. MMOs are NEVER perfectly balanced, that's just the way it is. People always seem to forget this

[Bluelightt]

At 75% hk geared with t1 raid 2 handed, I compete for top 3 regularily in my druid spec. Maybe its time to get in there and melee with those warriors. As the usual with Trion, whenever a spec gets buffed it does the top deeps. I realize that if your fully hk geared then this spec may not do you justice. In my gear it does extraordinarily well for only neding to use seven buttons, three typically. Time to no longer think of druid as the pos it used to be.

Druid is not top DPS, but it is very good, consistent DPS. I agree with the fact that we can compete in DPS its just about using proper spec and rotation. I agree, also, that MMO's are never balanced and its an ever changing thing. I am happy that all of our DPS souls have a place now though, it would be nice if Druid had the Shaman interrupt though I feel naked without it.

[Lumeria]

They need to do what they should have done in the beginning when they wanted to "fix" cleric DPS when they gave us Mein of Aggression-- Fix scaling, problem solved. It's very frustrating using optimal specs and rotations and always being at the bottom just because my abilities don't scale as well. Seeing somebody hit an 8k+ crit is absolutely ridiculous when the highest I've ever hit was just over 6k.

[Proph]

I'm sorry... is this where I buy tickets to see "The Crying Game?"

[Bluelightt]

They need to do what they should have done in the beginning when they wanted to "fix" cleric DPS when they gave us Mein of Aggression-- Fix scaling, problem solved. It's very frustrating using optimal specs and rotations and always being at the bottom just because my abilities don't scale as well. Seeing somebody hit an 8k+ crit is absolutely ridiculous when the highest I've ever hit was just over 6k.

Because max hit is totally what DPS is all about and everything. Trolling you because that QQ response is silly, you aren't on the bottom of the DPS charts unless you are undergeared, using bad spec, or using bad rotation.

[mattya802]

When cleric was buffed Trion said that cabalist was designed to be an aoe god and by this thinking they kept its ST dps low.

Roll in 1.8

Warriors and sabs are pretty much pulling cabalist aoe dps whilst been able to top the dps charts fro ST fights....

HK trash last night in full cabalist I was pulling 11k give or take.. our warriors were pulling 9.5k and sabs 10k.... we head to molinar.. sabs and warriors pulling 2.4k ST (in 1/2 hk gear) pure cabalist in full HK gear pulling 1.3k...

They probably switched specs - Not to mention neither of those specs are our top DPS specs.

Ultimately...Mien of Aggression...people knew it would not keep up as it has such low scalability compared to other classes. Eventually, you gotta rip that bandaid [fix] off, and it bloody hurts.

I still don't see the problem with MoA. Because additive bonuses are bad? Welcome to Warriors where we have 300%+ in most specs.

Does anyone have numbers of how Clerics scale with SP compared to others?

[Anyasha]

I still don't see the problem with MoA. Because additive bonuses are bad? Welcome to Warriors where we have 300%+ in most specs.

Does anyone have numbers of how Clerics scale with SP compared to others?

Additive bonuses are 'bad' in the sense that they don't do as much as they advertise they do. However, as you state, many other classes/souls have this issue. The reason why it is such an issue for Clerics is because out BASE calculations are lower than other classes'. 125% more of an ability that intrisically lags other classes' "fixes" the issue only until the others overcome the disparity due to base scaling.

I did the maths for this of Inquisitor v Pyro (notably the fillers BoJ and Fireball) a long time ago...would have to dredge it up. I don't want to pretend to remember the exact numbers, but the conclusion was that assuming fully buffed (self and raid), Bolt of Judgment outperforms Fireball due to the additive buffs until a certain threshold of SP and SC, at which point, Fireball overtakes it. The threshold was "low" (Again, don't remember exact, but was around 1000).

I've never run comparisons of Shaman to other melee builds, and certainly not since the changes. Ultimately, it's hardly needed...one can just look at the parse discrepencies.

TL;DR: The base calculations for Cleric abilities are lower than other classes'. "25% more" of lower potential DPS doesn't true-up the disparity.

[mattya802]

TL;DR: The base calculations for Cleric abilities are lower than other classes'. "25% more" of lower potential DPS doesn't true-up the disparity.

Those are the numbers I would love to see. Everyone says the scaling is worse, but I've never seen the math. At least, not what appears to be the correct math.

I get the concern and it's probably valid, I'm just curious to see the actual numbers.

Although, from what others are saying - Bolt n Jolt still isn't very far behind.

[Bluelightt]

In short...additive bonuses are bad if you expect them to fix your class' DPS in the long run. MoA will need adjusted again as people get more ID gear as cleric DPS will fall behind again, but currently we are competitive and where we should be, in my eyes.

[Bluelightt]

Those are the numbers I would love to see. Everyone says the scaling is worse, but I've never seen the math. At least, not what appears to be the correct math.

I get the concern and it's probably valid, I'm just curious to see the actual numbers.

Although, from what others are saying - Bolt n Jolt still isn't very far behind.

When MoA was being introduced Zinbik went over the math behind why it isn't a direct 25% increase. Simply put, its because it isn't multiplied by our other % modifier increases we get it is just added along side them. If they wanted to fix it they would have to nerf a few things on all our souls because a multiplied 25% would put us way ahead.