Cleric DPS is falling behind......again

[MaddBomber83]

Soul and class balance are irrevocably intertwined, because the moment you tip the balance in favour of a single class by offering it up to players as being able to be at or near the top of the charts whatever the role, then by virtue of this the other classes are made partially obsolete.

I'm glad that you don't work for Trion.

All classes should have comparable DPS. We have about as many DPS Souls as Warriors ; ). Should Warrior DPS = Cleric DPS? I should hope not! Or wait, I should hope so!

The Classes are supposed to be just flavor. Different ways to do the same thing, different mechanics or graphics or whatever. Now, if Trion made the Cleric Class and said Here is the BEST Healers who can do OK DPS and Tanking, then maybe I would have rolled something different.

They didn't, its not their design for 1 Archetype to be king of ANYTHING. That is this game, if you don't like it, petition for them to change it or go make your own game.


Now, NONE of the above has ANYTHING to do with if we are currently behind or not.

[Ivengar]

I'm glad that you don't work for Trion.

All classes should have comparable DPS. We have about as many DPS Souls as Warriors ; ). Should Warrior DPS = Cleric DPS? I should hope not! Or wait, I should hope so!

The Classes are supposed to be just flavor. Different ways to do the same thing, different mechanics or graphics or whatever. Now, if Trion made the Cleric Class and said Here is the BEST Healers who can do OK DPS and Tanking, then maybe I would have rolled something different.

They didn't, its not their design for 1 Archetype to be king of ANYTHING. That is this game, if you don't like it, petition for them to change it or go make your own game.


Now, NONE of the above has ANYTHING to do with if we are currently behind or not.

^^^
This is what I have been saying since like 1.3

[fitness]

I say Zinbik need to stop munching popcorn while reading this thread and say something...

[MaddBomber83]

I would also like to add, I'm in favor of both keeping to the original concept (Each class can do 3 of the 4 things):
Cleric - Heal, DPS, Tank
Mage - Heal, DPS, Support
Bard - DPS, Tank, Support
Warrior - Tank, DPS Support (As in, actually add a support role for them like they had)

Or, adding souls to each of the 4 achetypes so that any class can perform all 4 roles. Clerics get a support role, Mages get a Tank Role, Bards get a Heal Role, and Warriors get a Heal and Support Role.

The soul system and 'Bringing your friends, not a raid slot' is why I started playing this game.

Back on topic of Cleric DPS though:

[Silentstorm]

I don't think we are that far behind as some would say. I beat people in relics alot and they dont exactly suck at the game. But what i have noticed is its harder to maintain dps in any build. If something can be introduce to allow more skill on the player to determine good dps rather then button mashing. Yes we have the SH refresh but you can macro that. It's not exactly a determination of actual skill.

Maybe a new beam to use when certain things happen maybe a new SH side one. That makes you have to think and be rewarded using it in correct times. Rather then it just refreshing you dont even have to be paying attention to and use. I'd love to have something where you can judge a target determining certain factors. Say like if it moves cast a spell or uses a emote.

Then boom you judge them extra dps more fun more show of skill. Everyones happy it would even make pvp more engaging without overpowering it. Pvp should be a chess match anyway rather then my cannon is bigger then yours.

[Stay]

I was pretty disappointed in Druid. As the most recently buffed tree, I was hoping it would be the new top raid DPS tree and equal to other classes' recently buffed specs. Or at least equal to bolt-n-jolt, which is too gimmicky/situational for me to spare a role slot on.

Instead, even after a few days of testing to refine build, rotation, and gear/consumables, I barely gained any ST DPS over standard inquisitor. AoE was significantly worse. You have to stay in melee, and your pet will sometimes die and wreck your DPS if you don't micro it. All of your utility skills are overwritten in raids. On balance, the minor ST DPS gain over inquisitor wasn't worth the drawbacks.

But since 1.8 inquisitor wasn't keeping up with the other classes well enough to justify lost utility either. So I now run 51 puri, tank, and 4 different -icar hybrids. God bless the justicar tree, IDK where we would be without it.

[Lalothen]

The Classes are supposed to be just flavor. Different ways to do the same thing, different mechanics or graphics or whatever. Now, if Trion made the Cleric Class and said Here is the BEST Healers who can do OK DPS and Tanking, then maybe I would have rolled something different.

They didn't, its not their design for 1 Archetype to be king of ANYTHING. That is this game, if you don't like it, petition for them to change it or go make your own game.

That's a fine ideal, but in reality Trion aren't sticking to that ideal - in fact they've gradually moved away from it since the game went live.

Now, I think you're somewhat misinterpreting what I was stating, that being that currently no single class excels at everything, though Clerics probably come the closest. So to address the perceived "lack of chart-competitive DPS from Clerics unless they use BnJ" - which let's face it is debatable, since we're all still debating it - in my opinion at least, comes secondary to actually implementing specs for the other classes that allow them the sort of role diversity that Clerics already benefit from.

Granted, in progression raiding there is going to be pressure on Clerics to fulfil healing-related roles because healing is what they do best. However, progression raiders constitute a minority of the overall raiding population, who in turn make up a minority of the overall game population. For the majority of other players and the content that they face - even casual raiders - Clerics are perfectly viable as tanks, group healers, st healers or DPS. The only thing really lacking is a support role - though to be quite honest there's a solid argument in the notion that the dps/raid heal combo -Icar builds are fulfilling a support role.

Finally, why are you glad I don't work for Trion based on my statement that making one class top in everything consequently makes the other classes somewhat obsolete? Even the ideal design of all classes being equally good at everything, relies upon the notion of equality, which is something I support myself.

[ShalarLight]

I was pretty disappointed in Druid. As the most recently buffed tree, I was hoping it would be the new top raid DPS tree and equal to other classes' recently buffed specs. Or at least equal to bolt-n-jolt, which is too gimmicky/situational for me to spare a role slot on.

Instead, even after a few days of testing to refine build, rotation, and gear/consumables, I barely gained any ST DPS over standard inquisitor. AoE was significantly worse. You have to stay in melee, and your pet will sometimes die and wreck your DPS if you don't micro it. All of your utility skills are overwritten in raids. On balance, the minor ST DPS gain over inquisitor wasn't worth the drawbacks.

But since 1.8 inquisitor wasn't keeping up with the other classes well enough to justify lost utility either. So I now run 51 puri, tank, and 4 different -icar hybrids. God bless the justicar tree, IDK where we would be without it.

probably more balanced in pure roles and less dominate in hybrid roles. careful what you ask for, as -icar builds are very versatile...I would hate to give up such versatility for a handful of dps gain.

The combination of justicar being so good and inquisitors having so much burst/front loaded damage is part of the reason why cleric sustained is always a touch behind. I personally would not want to give up either.

[Byona]

I heard Sab(rogues aoe spec) can do ~3.8k on murdantix now, DPS is balanced guys.

[Godless One]

I was pretty disappointed in Druid. As the most recently buffed tree, I was hoping it would be the new top raid DPS tree and equal to other classes' recently buffed specs. Or at least equal to bolt-n-jolt, which is too gimmicky/situational for me to spare a role slot on.

Instead, even after a few days of testing to refine build, rotation, and gear/consumables, I barely gained any ST DPS over standard inquisitor. AoE was significantly worse. You have to stay in melee, and your pet will sometimes die and wreck your DPS if you don't micro it. All of your utility skills are overwritten in raids. On balance, the minor ST DPS gain over inquisitor wasn't worth the drawbacks.

But since 1.8 inquisitor wasn't keeping up with the other classes well enough to justify lost utility either. So I now run 51 puri, tank, and 4 different -icar hybrids. God bless the justicar tree, IDK where we would be without it.

Thats because they didn't actually do anything meaningful to the Druid soul.

[Alex113]

I heard Sab(rogues aoe spec) can do ~3.8k on murdantix now, DPS is balanced guys.

BRING POWER TO TEH CABBY DEN!
Buff our dots NAAWW.
Personaly i just want to see Inq get small buff and maybe give us a new spell or something to spice the spec up. Far too str8forward as it is.
I wouldnt mind a non-rng shamy as well :P

[Harmarofwhitecastle]

I heard Sab(rogues aoe spec) can do ~3.8k on murdantix now, DPS is balanced guys.

Sab is doing 8k on Laethys phase 1

It's pretty awesome

[Sunfire]

I was pretty disappointed in Druid. As the most recently buffed tree, I was hoping it would be the new top raid DPS tree and equal to other classes' recently buffed specs. Or at least equal to bolt-n-jolt, which is too gimmicky/situational for me to spare a role slot on.

They phoned in those changes as a band-aid.

Apparently there was a totally top-to-bottom Druid revamp in house that made it more of a hybrid ranged soul but they tabled it before it made it to the PTS.

[Lady Barington of Tealand]

To be honest since 1.8 inquisitor wasn't keeping up with the other classes well enough.
So considering inquisitor is the main cleric ranged dps spec it's really falling behind.
Yea we have jolt n bolt but really a casting spec played in mailee ranged?????
And we're being pushed back into healing or just not getting picked for raids as rogues are doing amazing st dps.

I just want to play my spec I don't want to be op but I want to be inline with others and not be be out dpsed wearing full hk gear and I'd relic to a warrior or rogue with t1 and some blues that ain't right.
Sorry my English is not great

[vladvador]

If you think cleric can't dps in par with the other since 1.8....learn to play your class?

I do 4200+dps in itzuziel when i dps(jolt'n bolt), i play lot of time tank in ID, so can't very speak for the other fight, but cleric can be in par with the other, and behind sometimes (you can easily push to 4k5 in laethys p1, 5k when the add comes if you throw soul drain in).

if you play inqui in all fight, you are doing it wrong, do you think mage play pyro in all fight and whine that mage can't dps? no, they plays 38/28 in itzuziel for example.

Stop whine, and go train your spec in the dummy.