1.7 The end of competitive cleric raid healing

[Hunt55511]

Try looking at that post again. Did you catch the meaning? If I didn't think there was an issue with it, why would I bring it up?

Oh, and since you are now clinging to Phage and his quite valid concerns, let me point out my very first post in this thread (which you seem to have forgotten)

Inquisitor doesn't need Purpose to keep full mana, unless it's using DOL which is not in the inquisitor soul itself and therefore doesn't constitute a buff to Inquisitor abilities. And I've never said anything about justicar tanking, I've been pointing out how much of an idiot people are for complaining about purpose being necessary for DOL in x/icar builds.

[Eughe]

To me, it seems you're just complaining because a soul designed to be used in melee....has to be used in melee.

If you got that outta that you are just reaffirming your idiocy tbh :F
Justi have plenty of skills that does not require one to be in melee, DoL is one of them.

Past that, you're just rambling about random crap that doesn't really make much sense.

I assume you use rambling on things you have no response to. Although I don't see how "it's your fault for making a build" wouldn't constitute as mindless rambling.

1) Sure, you spec into shaman for the crit modifier...But that's it. Any of the actual abilities in shaman you use (Outside of the shield) require you be in melee.

I dont require to be in melee range to crit however, same way I don't require to be in melee range to use DoL, DoB, rep, sal and moh.

Sentinel isn't even a DPS soul, let alone a melee one, so I have no idea where you're going with that one.

Oooo you dont have a cleric. I see.
Sweety, both senti and shaman have crit damage modifiers. I can spec into both and utilize them to make my booms, boom harder.
In neither case, do I have to heal or be in melee ranged, to utilize those modifiers.

2) I'm really not getting where you're going, seriously. Why does it matter how far you spec into a soul? You're using it's abilities, it's presumed that those abilities require whatever range/requirements the soul is designed for to work properly.

Justi have ranged abilities and all their heals do not require one to be in melee range to be used. therefore one shouldn't have to be in melee ranged to use them effectively.
I'm glad you agree.

It would be like expecting a Shaman to pull max DPS at range, or for Inquisitor to do max DPS while constantly moving.

Not...really. In this case it would it would be like I said, making it so shaman would have to be at max range to use sanction and inqui having to be in melee range to take advantage of shamans crit modifier.

o_o.

You can't simply not use DoL at range

Wait...they lowered its radius? Wah? Huh?

but you have to go into melee every minute to make effective use of it.

Why would I need to go in melee ranged to use a skill that does not require one to be in melee range to use. Does bullseye shot require melee range?

Nowhere does DoL say "When using this ability, all ranged abilities are auto-canceled for the next minute!".

I'm sure this was suppose to be clever but I didn't understand what point you were trying to make. However when using DoL you can't attack so.....:L

You act like Purpose permanently sticks you in melee range.

Shouldn't need a melee skill to make a non melee skill work~

[Mato]

Inquisitor doesn't need Purpose to keep full mana, unless it's using DOL which is not in the inquisitor soul itself and therefore doesn't constitute a buff to Inquisitor abilities. And I've never said anything about justicar tanking, I've been pointing out how much of an idiot people are for complaining about purpose being necessary for DOL in x/icar builds.

Dear Lord what the hell are you talking about?

I am obviously talking about the necessary mana regen abilities and the subpar AoE heals from healing souls, and how it needs to be fixed. This was the reason inquisicar was used in the first place!

You're like a record on repeat!

The justicar stuff was a totally different topic!

[Hunt55511]

I'm sorry, you've missed the point. As I've stated multiple times, the real issue is AoE healing in healing souls and their ineffective or missing mana regen abilities. That is the reason for the 'bastardization', to use your term, of incorporating justicar. Yes, justicar is a melee soul. Got it. Was understood before you started posting. My point was that the solution of using Purpose is a silly one and is a sloppy solution for what will soon be a mana issue for inquisicars (that ironically has the inquisitor soul in it, which you seem to be very keen on reminding us). The solution that myself and others have proposed has been to have Aggressive Renewal be changed from a set value to a %-based return, similar to Ageless Ice and Purpose. That way, we still get low on mana with DoL changes (making it less spammable), but have a more efficient, sensible way to regen.

The disadvantages of going into melee as a ranged caster has been spelled out already multiple times, and I won't do it again. This same principle stands for Soul Drain.

Dear Lord what the hell are you talking about?

I am obviously talking about the necessary mana regen abilities and the subpar AoE heals from healing souls, and how it needs to be fixed. This was the reason inquisicar was used in the first place!

You're like a record on repeat!

The justicar stuff was a totally different topic!

How is your proposal for a buff to AR relevant to AOE heals and mana inefficiency in healing souls? The flow of your post goes:

AOE healing in healing souls is bad and is the real problem -> So let's buff AR in Inquisicar! You should be asking for buffs to your healing souls' AOE and mana, not asking for the spec that isn't even meant for AOE healing to be fixed to be more compliant to AOE healing from range.

Snipped for obscene length

I'm not even going to argue your points, I'm just going to state it simply for you:

Justicar is a melee soul. It makes sense for the soul to only fuction properly in melee. Inquisitor is a ranged soul, ranged souls don't really care where they are to function. By combining the two, you get a build that can be at ranged, but to function properly requires you weave in to melee as necessary. DoL does not require that you be in melee range, but purpose does. It makes sense that an ability that requires you be in melee range to use...require you be in melee range. If you run out of mana spamming DoL and your only way to regen mana is to use purpose, then get in melee.

To recap: Purpose is a melee-only ability. Get over it.

[Jungo15]

PurposeNo Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 60.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's melee ability attacks to restore 10% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 10 seconds.

Change to

PurposeNo Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 45.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's attacks to restore 10% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 10 seconds.

I would be happy to change it to:
Purpose - No Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 60.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's melee ability attacks to restore 20% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 5 seconds.

Or whatever the math works out to be so that we get the same amount, just faster. I have no problem positioning myself into melee range, I just hate that I have exactly one melee skill in most of my DoL specs, and it's a poor one (not that clerics have any GOOD melee skills, but that is another issue.)

That being said, I am not concerned with the DoL change in general.

[Ahov]

Lol clerics can't raid heal anymore. The last bastion of raid healing for clerics was the powerful Justicar. Now it has been mauled by You-know-who and we we're given nothing to compensate.

Lets just forget raid healing for a second. This will affect the poor lowbie clerics who used to be able to heal themselves out of 5 mobs in their duracell specs. Now, they'll be mana starved within a few casts.

Purpose wasn't given a buff to compensate, we received nothing else to compensate apart from a few minor buffs to the main healing trees.

DoL was the only thing keeping us on par with chloros, who never struggle for mana. Now it has been made even more difficult to keep up.

Zibnik, just erase us from rift already. Seriously man. You shaft us EVERY god damn time. You buff something, then nerf something else.

Is your motto: If it ain't broken, nerf it?

We'll never even get to be FOTM let alone just under-par with Zibnik in charge.

It's tiring and reduces my enjoyment and the enjoyment of many other clerics I'm sure.

Gimp classes are no fun. Nobody will stick around to play a gimp class.

just my 2 cents.

With heroic mana tonics, purpose, aggressive renewal, nothing at all changes for inquisicar. You weren't going oom before, it's just impossible. Solo healing general silgen and spamming DoLs I never had any mana issues as long as I managed my regen cooldowns.

Let's not forget archon's mana flare which is still available for clerics. (Though will still be unnecessary -icars; people are blowing this change way out of proportion and should learn to play)

[Eughe]

I'm not even going to argue your points,

Because you can't :L

Justicar is a melee soul.

It's also a heal soul too. Which doesn't require melee to heal.

:L

It makes sense for the soul to only fuction properly in melee.

Won't function well while tanking either
:L

Inquisitor is a ranged soul, ranged souls don't really care where they are to function.

51 ranger won't function in melee range.

By combining the two, you get a build that can be at ranged, but to function properly requires you weave in to melee as necessary.

Even with the change this won't be true
:L

DoL does not require that you be in melee range, but purpose does.

Two different skills with two different function unrelated to each other.
It's like saying fireball hurt because pyro shield prevents half damage.

It makes sense that an ability that requires you be in melee range to use...require you be in melee range.

You just said DoL doesn't require one to be in melee range. I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

:L

If you run out of mana spamming DoL and your only way to regen mana is to use purpose, then get in melee.

Why should a non melee skill require a melee skill to be used for it to function properly?

To recap: Purpose is a melee-only ability. Get over it.

What does that have to do with DoL?

[hippyman]

With heroic mana tonics, purpose, aggressive renewal, nothing at all changes for inquisicar. You weren't going oom before, it's just impossible. Solo healing general silgen and spamming DoLs I never had any mana issues as long as I managed my regen cooldowns.

Let's not forget archon's mana flare which is still available for clerics. (Though will still be unnecessary -icars; people are blowing this change way out of proportion and should learn to play)

So, you're saying I have to now go 11 inquisitor just to be viable when it comes to mana? I have to take a hit to my healing just so i can function properly again?

10/10 troll ahov. Far out dude. Why are you still in maximation.

[Hunt55511]

Because you can't :L

It's also a heal soul too. Which doesn't require melee to heal.

:L

Won't function well while tanking either
:L

51 ranger won't function in melee range.

Even with the change this won't be true
:L

Two different skills with two different function unrelated to each other.
It's like saying fireball hurt because pyro shield prevents half damage.

You just said DoL doesn't require one to be in melee range. I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

:L

Why should a non melee skill require a melee skill to be used for it to function properly?

What does that have to do with DoL?

I give up, you're obviously going to QQ no matter what happens.

[Ahov]

So, you're saying I have to now go 11 inquisitor just to be viable when it comes to mana? I have to take a hit to my healing just so i can function properly again?

10/10 troll ahov. Far out dude. Why are you still in maximation.

You should apply and take my raid spot if you think you're better.

edit: as for needing inquisitor in a senticar spec...nope. You won't. Once again, you've blown things out of proportion and it's pretty obvious you're bad.

[hippyman]

You should apply and take my raid spot if you think you're better.

edit: as for needing inquisitor in a senticar spec...nope. You won't. Once again, you've blown things out of proportion and it's pretty obvious you're bad.

Ahov: Herp derp I solo heal GP.

Hippy: Of course, with a relic geared team this would be no problem.

Ahov: Herp derp you're bad because you poo-pooed my healing spec

Hippy: Well... you know, that's just like, your opinion man. You're entitled to it. There are better alternatives to your raid healing specs.

Ahov: Herp derp, this change will not affect us in any way.

Hippy: Well, if you think about it, many encounters have been made more difficult than was necessary to raid heal and regen mana.

Ahov: Herp derp

[Hunt55511]

Ahov: Herp derp I solo heal GP.

Hippy: Of course, with a relic geared team this would be no problem.

Ahov: Herp derp you're bad because you poo-pooed my healing spec

Hippy: That's just your opinion man. You're entitled to it. There are better alternatives to your raid healing specs.

Ahov: Herp derp, this change will not affect us in any way.

Hippy: Well, if you think about it, many encounters have been made more difficult than necessary to raid heal and regen mana.

How you think that conversation went and how it actually did are totally different.

[Quietmode]

I go to a meeting for 2 hours and the Ragefest got even worse!

[Hunt55511]

I go to a meeting for 2 hours and the Ragefest got even worse!

I'm not sure why people are raging about Purpose being melee-only and actually having to use it.

[Venditte]

I already use purpose and heroic mana tonics every time they're off CD, so it won't effect me much. I was just mad about it last night because I was tired and still mad 1.7 didn't buff sentinel/warden at all. It's not that big of a nerf, it's just incredibly demoralizing. Trust me, it won't effect you as much as you're thinking it will.