1.7 The end of competitive cleric raid healing

[Eughe]

Lets just forget raid healing for a second. This will affect the poor lowbie clerics who used to be able to heal themselves out of 5 mobs in their duracell specs. Now, they'll be mana starved within a few casts.

Now, I've never used Duracell but why would one use dol for soloing? When dob heals for just as much for a fraction of the cost? And isn't the point of Duracell to take advantage of several mana regen abilities?

[Ladara]

Sounds to me like a bunch of bads crying because they have to play smarter now. No offense, but good players will learn to adjust and continue to thrive.

I think people are just upset that clerics haven't been given the love other classes have. Also making any class harder to use in raids makes it less desirable to bring.

[Phage]

Sounds to me like a bunch of bads crying because they have to play smarter now. No offense, but good players will learn to adjust and continue to thrive.

The bigger insult is not that there was a nerf to hybrid raid healers, but that the underdog tank took a hit for no reason.

The healing nerf screwed over Justicar and for the most part Inquisicar, Shamicar, and Senticar are all completely untouched. If this actually had created a paradigm shift for raid healing back to Sentinel/Warden, great. It would be awesome to raid heal with a healing soul, however, the change did not swap anything.

The healing cost screws Justicars the most and essentially affects no one else. I'm pretty sure no one was screaming for Justicar tanking nerfs...

[Ladara]

It's unfortunate that you will now have to think instead of spam DoL all the time. Realistically Purpose, Renewal, and Tonics you're pretty much set in every scenario.

And mental flare and verse of joy. Problem solved, yay

[Hunt55511]

And mental flare and verse of joy. Problem solved, yay

Should try being a warrior and being starved constantly.

Oh, the joy.

[aburie]

PurposeNo Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 60.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's melee ability attacks to restore 10% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 10 seconds.

Change to

PurposeNo Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 45.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's attacks to restore 10% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 10 seconds.

I think the change to DOL mana increase will hurt tanking and Senticar builds.Inquisicar and Shamicar shouldn't be affected,since there there for damage and helping out with burst group damage.Senticars are there for DOL raid healing.

[Hunt55511]

PurposeNo Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 60.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's melee ability attacks to restore 10% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 10 seconds.

Change to

PurposeNo Cost
Instant
Cooldown: 45.00 Seconds
Renews the Cleric with purpose, causing all of the Cleric's attacks to restore 10% mana. Does not trigger a global cooldown. Lasts 10 seconds.

I think the change to DOL mana increase will hurt tanking and Senticar builds.Inquisicar and Shamicar shouldn't be affected,since there there for damage and helping out with burst group damage.Senticars are there for DOL raid healing.

Getting into melee is not hard.

[Mato]

Getting into melee is not hard.

Not hard. But it seems unnecessary.

Devs tried to put an end to DoL spamming. In one day, the cleric community has devised a solution. This whole change, though not gamebreaking, just seems completely unneeded.

Why not fix the real issues clerics face, that every cleric agrees on? (ST DPS still too low, shaman not viable in PvE, druid is unusable, no mana regen abilities for sentinel/purifier, justicar tanking lacking, etc)

[Hunt55511]

Not hard. But it seems unnecessary.

Devs tried to put an end to DoL spamming. In one day, the cleric community has devised a solution. This whole change, though not gamebreaking, just seems completely unneeded.

Why not fix the real issues clerics face, that every cleric agrees on? (ST DPS still too low, shaman not viable in PvE, druid is unusable, no mana regen abilities for sentinel/purifier, justicar tanking lacking, etc)

It makes DOL healing less faceroll. Now there's some actual skill required. What's so bad about that?

[Mato]

It makes DOL healing less faceroll. Now there's some actual skill required. What's so bad about that?

I would rather them change AR to %-based, instead of finding a tacky solution in using Purpose. Same effect (mana management with DoL), but you don't need to melee to get back mana.

Currently, all bosses in HK are friendly to casters coming into melee range. Who knows what will be in ID or beyond. Maybe a boss that mana drains in melee range? Has an effect similar to Dollin/Mana Leech for casters in melee?

I'm more looking down-the-road, and having a good change which won't have to be looked at again when new content arrives.

What I'm trying to say is, doesn't it seem like sloppy gameplay for a caster to have to go into melee range to gain mana? Same thing holds true for Soul Drain, and they still haven't looked at that.

[Hunt55511]

I would rather them change AR to %-based, instead of finding a tacky solution in using Purpose. Same effect (mana management with DoL), but you don't need to melee to get back mana.

Currently, all bosses in HK are friendly to casters coming into melee range. Who knows what will be in ID or beyond. Maybe a boss that mana drains in melee range? Has an effect similar to Dollin/Mana Leech for casters in melee?

I'm more looking down-the-road, and having a good change which won't have to be looked at again when new content arrives.

No boss will ever be completley unplayable in melee unless warriors magically get competitive ranged DPS. It is also very doubtful that any boss will ever have a mana draining self-based AE.

[Mato]

No boss will ever be unfriendly to melee. It is also very doubtful that any boss will ever have a mana draining self-based AE.

Not unfriendly to melee. Unfriendly to melee-caster classes (mages, clerics).

It's not too far fetched. They already have mana leeching mobs in HK which tick for 1000 mana, and other mobs which have an ability called (ironically) Mana Leech, which selectively puts a hard hitting DoT on any caster who comes into melee range.

[Eughe]

Getting into melee is not hard.

I think you are idiotically over simplifying the situation. I personally don't think this will be as devastating as people are making it seem (clerics tend to clutch their pearls too often), but saying "purpose" is dumb.

Can it be done? Yeah.
But how practical is it for MMs to stay in melee ranged to function? I mean it can happen, they even have a skill that allows it to happen, but it's dumb.
It's would be like give a warrior a finisher that can only be used at 30m while all builders are melee ranged only.


Inqui was given, not only a ranged mana regen ability, but a mana reducing passive, because the soul itself, is a ranged soul. They specifically made changes to BoD, to keep it from having to go into melee range. It's a ranged soul and changes thus far, has made it so that inquis, a ranged type, wouldn't have to go into melee ranged.


The only valid argument is that DoL belongs to a soul that is intended to be in melee range at all time and they are making sure that it does stay in melee range or be in melee centric builds to function well. But even that doesn't hold up with the concept of soul combination and how DoL is the only support skill that requires one to be in melee range to be used effectively.

[Hunt55511]

I think you are idiotically over simplifying the situation. I personally don't think this will be as devastating as people are making it seem (clerics tend to clutch their pearls too often), but saying "purpose" is dumb.

Can it be done? Yeah.
But how practical is it for MMs to stay in melee ranged to function? I mean it can happen, they even have a skill that allows it to happen, but it's dumb.
It's would be like give a warrior a finisher that can only be used at 30m while all builders are melee ranged only.


Inqui was given, not only a ranged mana regen ability, but a mana reducing passive, because the soul itself, is a ranged soul. They specifically made changes to BoD, to keep it from having to go into melee range. It's a ranged soul and changes thus far, has made it so that inquis, a ranged type, wouldn't have to go into melee ranged.


The only valid argument is that DoL belongs to a soul that is intended to be in melee range at all time and they are making sure that it does stay in melee range or be in melee centric builds to function well. But even that doesn't hold up with the concept of soul combination and how DoL is the only support skill that requires one to be in melee range to be used effectively.

1) You have abilities that work in melee range, while moving, to build convictions. Learn them, love them, USE them. You also have 3 instant-cast, life-based, ranged abilities for build convictions that you can also use.
2) Nothing anywhere states that Inquis MUST be able to spam DOL. It's actually more of a bastardization of Rift's soul system than the Rising Waterfall spec is.
3) You do not have to be in melee range full-time, only when you need mana (That is: When you burn AR and are sitting at ~20-30% mana). At best, you enter melee every minute.
4) Soul Drain is an ability that only works in (Basically) melee range. What do you have to say about THAT?

[Mato]

1) You have abilities that work in melee range, while moving, to build convictions. Learn them, love them, USE them. You also have 3 instant-cast, life-based, ranged abilities for build convictions that you can also use.
2) Nothing anywhere states that Inquis MUST be able to spam DOL. It's actually more of a bastardization of Rift's soul system than the Rising Waterfall spec is.
3) You do not have to be in melee range full-time, only when you need mana (That is: When you burn AR and are sitting at ~20-30% mana). At best, you enter melee every minute.
4) Soul Drain is an ability that only works in (Basically) melee range. What do you have to say about THAT?

Most of it I agree with you. I'll point out my counterpoints

From 2) You don't need to spam DoL. But why bring a full inquisitor otherwise? They can't match other classes in DPS. Their shining ability is to be able to DPS decently and react to raid damage with DoL. That is their only purpose. It may be a bastardization, but until Trion decides to look at the real issue (AoE healing in the healing souls), it is our best option.
From 3 and 4) As he stated before, it seems strange for a ranged caster to be required to come into melee for certain abilities. Remember ~1 month back when there was a huge uproar on the cleric forums on how it is dumb for Soul Drain to be melee? Though it never got changed, we did get the Clinging Spirit buff added to BoD. What other souls/classes are ranged and require them to move into melee in order to use key abilities?