Hopes for reduction of tank aggro and increase of DPS aggro management for Strom legi

[Aguni]

OP must have got this game just yesterday... I pull threat constantly in RAID environments as a Bard.....

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10char

[Valfador]

Order of tanking:
1.Macro spam
2. whatever "unique" buff your tank spec need to place
3. If cleric insert DoL here
4. collect loot

[Ianto Jones]

Let's cut through the crap. Making aggro harder to hold will do nothing but make grind content take longer. I don't want to spend more time than I have to doing 2-year-old content because we can no longer hold aggro pulling a whole dungeon. Not only that but it will discourage even MORE people from PUG and LFG runs because under-geared tanks will be overwhelmed by well-geared DPS. There are few enough tanks as it is, even with Warriors and Clerics being complete faceroll.

"Managing threat" is an even dumber concept for DPS. First off the idea of stopping DPS so let the tank build aggro DURING the fight is just asinine. That does not make things more fun. That is not enjoyable. You'll also completely ruin several high-end DPS specs. Defile? Beastmaster? Jolt'n'bolt? High (and in two cases highest) DPS builds that would run into threat issues but be hit hard by having to stop attacking. DOT classes in general are screwed.

They've actually done a good job making tanking harder and more fun in ID than the easy-mode of t1 and t2 raids. The difficulty of playing a tank should come from content design, not from antiquated class mechanics that aren't at all suited to this game's demographics or play style.

[Vrothu]

In ancient times, when everyone played EQ1, there existed the Holy Trinity; Cleric, Warrior Tank and Enchanter. Groups required an Enchanter for aggro control. Problem was that people hated the idea of needing an Enchanter almost as much as they hated the Enchanter class itself.

Then EQ2 and WOW were released handing responsibility of aggro control over to the tanks and everyone lived happily ever after. I remember playing the EQ2 version of an Enchanter and Tanks getting pissed anytime you mentioned CC. To use CC was to insult their ability to hold aggro. Since then, CC in PvE has become only a distant memory.

And now you want to lessen that control from Tanks?
Good luck with that.

Seems to me like the only ones that would be in favor of that is anyone struggling to achieve High DPS who would enjoy seeing those with higher DPS pulling aggro and getting themselves killed. I don't think it would be so much a question of aggro control as it would be a way to nerf high DPS.

Though on the other had I would actually love to see a use for CC (insert shameless Dominator plug) in PvE.

God i miss my coercer!!!!! Talk about a FUN class!!!!

PvP went a little somthing like this.

Assassin pops out of stealth=== “ DIE!!!! I Decapitate YOU!!”

My response=== “ Hold on there son…. Stare at these pretty lights for a few , while I load you up with reactives”

(After reactive are loaded up) === “OK son, do your worst!! I dare ya!! OH and by the way say “hello” to my little friend!! (the mob I charmed 15 lvls above us both)”

LMFAO good times, good times

[Shaykeyurass]

You forget to talk about healers aggro!! They should increase aggro on heals so the tank can't be healed if he takes to many mobs cause the healer will pull aggro! So experts pug runs will be even longer!!!!

And as result, devs wouldn't have to worry about the content they implement as we would already be too busy at managing aggro! Imagine ID : 8 boss same tactics, just different HP amounts for every boss and raid composition that should change (more healers or less to be able to keep the tank alive without pulling aggro) !!!!

Great idea!


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come on ..... and don't say I'm trolling ....

[Ordika]

In raids and master modes, yeah it could be more engaging (if you like micromanaging which for me no, but for others sure), but in LFG it would be a nightmare and really a mistake.

So what you do to fix is not muck with tanks, but makes mobs far more sensitive to aggro in certain formats. Personally that would kill my involvement in those formats as I hate micromanaging my threat. It's also sort of unrealistic in the first place as a mob shouldn't ignore the warrior standing right in front of it trying to crush its face in with a mace. As a player in PvP who knows game mechanics, sure I know to ignore the warrior and kill the healer, but I doubt the goblin with the brain the size of a pea recognizes anything past, 'CRAP MACE IN MY FACE!!!!'.

[aabuster1]

Again, wow. I could have never imagined the responses here.

Just to be recap: What you all want, is what we already have, that is when the tank hits the mob; Everyone else can do whatever they want without any worry other than the encounter mechanics.

Makes me want to say something about the loot pinata syndrome but I won't. Makes me wonder what other aspect of gaming will be trivialized in the near future as well. You guys can go back to button smashing and collecting loot, it seems the idea of aggro control is something of the past.

[nocks]

Again, wow. I could have never imagined the responses here.

Just to be recap: What you all want, is what we already have, that is when the tank hits the mob; Everyone else can do whatever they want without any worry other than the encounter mechanics.

Makes me want to say something about the loot pinata syndrome but I won't. Makes me wonder what other aspect of gaming will be trivialized in the near future as well. You guys can go back to button smashing and collecting loot, it seems the idea of aggro control is something of the past.

First, you're exaggerating the situation. There wouldn't be so many Warriors on the Warrior Forums asking about agro management if it were a complete walk in the park. I agree that it's not terribly difficult, but sometimes agro will still get snatched by the occasional decked out DPS who gets the jump on you. Especially since top mitigation builds don't always give you the easiest agro tools.

Mainly, there's a difference between "fun" and "punishment." Everquest was borderline punishment in a lot of ways, and many of us have matured to the point where we'd rather have a fun game than a torturous slog.

However, I do wish that Rift had control mechanics in place, I really miss my EQ enchanter as well.

[Bluelightt]

Again, wow. I could have never imagined the responses here.

Just to be recap: What you all want, is what we already have, that is when the tank hits the mob; Everyone else can do whatever they want without any worry other than the encounter mechanics.

Makes me want to say something about the loot pinata syndrome but I won't. Makes me wonder what other aspect of gaming will be trivialized in the near future as well. You guys can go back to button smashing and collecting loot, it seems the idea of aggro control is something of the past.

Aggro control was not fun in EQ, instead of being able to do the most you can out of your class as a DPS you had to control it and get a feel for exactly how much you could push it without pulling aggro meanwhile there was nothing a tank could do past a certain point to keep it (and then hope you get a lucky taunt when you lose it). It wasn't fun then and certainly wouldn't be fun now. Its been a really long time since aggro control was a problem by the way, even in EQ1 they all but got rid of the concept.

[Ordika]

Again, wow. I could have never imagined the responses here.

Just to be recap: What you all want, is what we already have, that is when the tank hits the mob; Everyone else can do whatever they want without any worry other than the encounter mechanics.

Makes me want to say something about the loot pinata syndrome but I won't. Makes me wonder what other aspect of gaming will be trivialized in the near future as well. You guys can go back to button smashing and collecting loot, it seems the idea of aggro control is something of the past.

If you really want aggro management as a mechanic in every group encounter then you need to change more then just the aggro design philosophy.

- Enrage timers need to be removed or massively extended to prevent people from giving up on an encounter simply because it is impossible for a tank to maintain aggro and do enough dps in the allotted time.

- Every soul will need at least 1 aggro dump

- Aggro from HoT's needs to be redone

- There needs to be greater CC availability and the CC timers need to be reworked (this also has PvP implications)

- What do tanks have to give up to be better at gaining and maintaining aggro?

[Shieldy]

get rid of toghness and then well talk.

the consequence for loosing aggo shouldny be the whole raid going splat when someone pulls and has the boss cleave the raid.

not to mention hardly any souls have aggro management built in, sab inquisitor (lol) and riftblade and riftstalker are the only ones in know of.

its not an enjoyable part of the game for me, tanking in swtor made me want to punch babies because managing aggro was such a PITA.

[TheGrinnz]

get rid of toghness and then well talk.

the consequence for loosing aggo shouldny be the whole raid going splat when someone pulls and has the boss cleave the raid.

not to mention hardly any souls have aggro management built in, sab inquisitor (lol) and riftblade and riftstalker are the only ones in know of.

its not an enjoyable part of the game for me, tanking in swtor made me want to punch babies because managing aggro was such a PITA.

also Dominator (Memory Wipe)

[aabuster1]

First, you're exaggerating the situation. There wouldn't be so many Warriors on the Warrior Forums asking about agro management if it were a complete walk in the park.

....

However, I do wish that Rift had control mechanics in place, I really miss my EQ enchanter as well.

I don't think I'm exaggerating the aggro situation in this game. The only time you can ever loose aggro is 1) if someone else taunts, 2) if your DPS gets a crit chain within the first 3 GCDs of the encounter, and 3) if someone AEs on mobs you have face aggroed but not hit (there may be others).

If you loose aggro in any other situation you really are a bad tank. Is that not the mentality in this game? Tanks get single target taunts every 8 seconds, which are in reality never needed other than changing tanks - and this taunt, plus others they get, pretty much does away with the dangers associated with any of the ways a tank can loose threat.

Just forget my original post. Tanks have it easy in this game and because of that the DPS have it easy as well. As the majority speaks, you guys have changed my mind, I concede the game does not need any changes to aggro management.

As to the enchanter - what exactly would an enchanter offer to this game in regards to CC? Right now tanks usually pull 2-8 groups together and let them be AE/AOE'd down. Adds are not a problem, as a matter of fact they are generally welcomed. The mage dominator is pretty much the enchanter in regards to control - you see how much that is used.

Why bother with ANY CC in this game in its current state, other than PVP?

Now if the game had mobs in place that actually hurt. If an unexpected add meant something. If some groups of mobs needed to be split. Then the enchanter type might be useful.

The tools the enchanter had that were used - Haste, Mind candy, mez, and charm. Like we need those in this game - and we already have similar versions of some. Now a pet based soul centered around charm could be fun (tangent).

As I stated above - I concede no changes need to be done with aggro.

[nocks]

Why bother with ANY CC in this game in its current state, other than PVP?

Now if the game had mobs in place that actually hurt. If an unexpected add meant something. If some groups of mobs needed to be split. Then the enchanter type might be useful.

I agree that it seems hard to work CC into the game as it is now. Well, there are some mechanics in boss fights that essentially require CC, but because CC doesn't even work on bosses, you have to perform the mechanics with a second tank.

I think some really fun/interesting ways that Rift could do this...

You have Mob Type A and Mob Type B. If they get within 10m of each other, both become invincible. The only way to kill them is to Root/Fear/Poly one of them and drag the other away. Or any kind of stacking bonus effect from having mobs be near each other.

Just an idea. Alternatively, just having harder mobs. In EQ, you had to have CC because if you tried to fight 3-4 mobs at once your group would fall apart. If player skill is a problem, maybe make a toggle so that you can't accidentally break CC in a group.

[TheGrinnz]

I agree that it seems hard to work CC into the game as it is now. Well, there are some mechanics in boss fights that essentially require CC, but because CC doesn't even work on bosses, you have to perform the mechanics with a second tank.

I think some really fun/interesting ways that Rift could do this...

You have Mob Type A and Mob Type B. If they get within 10m of each other, both become invincible. The only way to kill them is to Root/Fear/Poly one of them and drag the other away. Or any kind of stacking bonus effect from having mobs be near each other.

Just an idea. Alternatively, just having harder mobs. In EQ, you had to have CC because if you tried to fight 3-4 mobs at once your group would fall apart. If player skill is a problem, maybe make a toggle so that you can't accidentally break CC in a group.

I would just like to see encounters built around CCs other than Transmogrify (and make them immune to transmog)