Block Diminishing Returns for 1.8?

[Balthy]

Since 1.8 came out the formula for block diminishing returns has changed apparently. I've searched around and haven't dug up anything. If you have any knowledge regarding the diminishing returns for block please reply!

[aabuster1]

I think Zibnik posted it a while back... Could be wrong. Like x0.3 for over the soft cap of 45% and hard caps at 60%. Think reduction was 50% and 65%... I could be wrong just do a search for Zibniks posts, it was in one of the pre-1.8 cleric tank discussion threads.

[Radak]

Let me try to fully explain it.

WIth patch 1.8 block has couple of soft caps and hard caps so I will give you the formula's at each cap.

Block rating =< 927

Block chance = block rating * 10 / 206
Block reduction = block rating / ( block rating + 721 ) * 100

Block rating is between 927 and 1081.5
(block chance soft cap of 45%)

Block chance = (block rating - 927) * 15 / 1030 + 45
Block reduction = block rating / ( block rating + 721 ) * 100

Block rating is between 1081.5 and 1957
(Block reduction soft cap of 60%)

Block chance = (block rating - 927) * 15 / 1030 + 45
Block reduction = ( ( block rating / ( block rating + 721 ) - 0.60 ) * 0.3 + 0.60) * 100

Block rating is between 1957 and 10068 (would really be 10094 but rounding takes it to 70% at 10068
(block chance hard cap of 60%)

Block chance = 60%
Block reduction = ( ( block rating / ( block rating + 721 ) - 0.60 ) * 0.3 + 0.60) * 100

Block rating > 10068

Block chance = 60%
Block reduction = 70%

[Fangthane]

Radak - where were you when I still had math homework?!

[Mithon]

Hmm.. so what does this mean actually? The way I read it is, soft cap comes in two stages, first at rating 927 for block chance, and then at 1957 for block reduction.

This could mean that you should stack block over end untill 927 and then go end over block untill 1957 and then ignore block rating, or it could mean go block over end all the way up to 1957 and then ignore block, or even something else.

One thing is certain, you get less bang for buck after 927 and even less after 1957. But what should you aim for?

Any thoughts?

[Console]

softcap for blockreduce is 1081(not 1957) and softcap for blockchance is 927

hardcap for blockreduce is 10068 and hardcap for blockchance is 1957

so i gues you should be aiming for 1081 ;) as cleric i already hit both softcaps so no need for more block on items YAY!

[Radak]

Hmm.. so what does this mean actually? The way I read it is, soft cap comes in two stages, first at rating 927 for block chance, and then at 1957 for block reduction.

This could mean that you should stack block over end untill 927 and then go end over block untill 1957 and then ignore block rating, or it could mean go block over end all the way up to 1957 and then ignore block, or even something else.

One thing is certain, you get less bang for buck after 927 and even less after 1957. But what should you aim for?

Any thoughts?

Guess my explanation could have been a little bit better so let me add a few things.

There are 2 soft cap and 2 hard caps.
Block chance soft cap: 45% = 927 block rating
Block chance hard cap: 60% = 1957 block rating
Block reduction soft cap: 60% = 1081.5 block rating
Block reduction hard cap: 70% = 10068 block rating

Now I don't know what class you play but for a cleric tank it comes down to the following (for a warrior tank it should be about equal though):

Below 927 block rating: it's the absolute avoidance king.
Above 927 but below 1081.5 block rating: It's still a really good stat and you will still want it
Above 1081.5 but below 1957 block rating: The value is about equal to parry and lower then dodge but most of the time you get double the amount block rating on gear making it still a stat you want to look for (at this point a lot of gear with block + dodge/parry are really well itemized).
Above 1957 block rating: It's not really usefull anymore and is worth about 1/5th of parry.
Above 10068 block rating: Stop hacking the game.

[Mithon]

Thank you very much for the clarification Radak. I play a cleric as well. Though I only tank casually, primarily filling the other roles. I see that my post makes no sense. I was putting some wrong numbers. Sorry about that. You've cleared everything up allready, so there's no need for me to fix my mistakes.

[Mithon]

Actually there was one thing you didn't answer. And that concerns not how block compares to dodge and parry (which you answered nicely), but how block compares to endurance.

So the question is: At what point should I start choosing 1 endurance over 1 block?

Not sure if the current itemization leaves such a question irrelevant, but if there is a high endurance, low block shield and a low endurance high block shield, when should I use which one?

[Radak]

Radak - where were you when I still had math homework?!

Well that would depend on when you last had math homework. I was either doing my own math homework (depending on what year ranging from basic math to differential equations), successfully passing the MENSA entrance IQ test or doing my job in the laboratory. Or if you live in the US probably sleeping because of the time difference

Actually there was one thing you didn't answer. And that concerns not how block compares to dodge and parry (which you answered nicely), but how block compares to endurance.

So the question is: At what point should I start choosing 1 endurance over 1 block?

Not sure if the current itemization leaves such a question irrelevant, but if there is a high endurance, low block shield and a low endurance high block shield, when should I use which one?

If you follow the stat values in my spreadsheet (see signature) which takes everything into account*, endurance is rated very highly at almost 3-4x the value of block/parry/dodge after the soft caps. So in those cases the high endurance items will be rated very high. However you very rarely encounter items of the same tier with significant endurance differences.

*In my spreadsheet a value is given to the currently selected gear, buffs, talent, armor and other things which gives is the average mitigation multiplied by your HP (TEHP). (if you want to know how I calculate the average mitigation just ask but I warn you it will be one really long calculation)
After that I simple add any of the stats and look at the change of the value. The value of the stat is simple the increase in the TEHP.

[Ruulin]

At 1081 block, the cost of 1% mitigation from block is less than the cost for 1% dodge.
Dodge is a linear function, therefore every 42.19 points of dodge will always be +1% avoidance. and avoidance is infinite mitigation. (This assumes no hard-cap is placed on dodge)

To ignore dodge entirely in favor of block is a waste when block is > 1081.

As for parry, it has a hard cap around 20% and since parry is based on WIS / STR, it takes care of itself and should never have priority over Dodge, Block, or END.

The question about how when to sacrifice block for END: IMO, 1081 block. In fact, I'd say END would be more valuable than dodge. At this point, it is important to adjust your source core, removing some of the BIS block lessers for more END.

Thus you have a generalized approach to stats : 1081 block > END > Dodge > anything else.

[Bigglet1990]

Above 1081.5 but below 1957 block rating: The value is about equal to parry and lower then dodge but most of the time you get double the amount block rating on gear making it still a stat you want to look for (at this point a lot of gear with block + dodge/parry are really well itemized).

The question above 1081.5 block value here would be; Will the weapon enchants favour 10 intelligence over 10 wisdom here or not? 10 dodge vs 10 block + 10 parry

[itrboost]

ok, i m still learning, so figive me with some noob question.

heres few
when u stop stacking block?
If i m sitting at 1168 block selfbuff, will that i need to start looking into stack other stats?
at where i m at 1168 block, my parry is 661, and mid 500 on dodge, cant remember exact. but what i seeing is, if i want to increase my hp, i would have to lose some block, in return i will gain parry/dodge and of cuz end. so i guess i need to understand which stats is important to stack first, and that when is stopping point if stacking those, i assume u dont stop stacking endurance.

i m sitting at 19.2k hp self buff, and i really want to reach over 19.5k hp self buff, which i have 12pt PA left for end, and i can switch out few gears.

heres other stats
1168 block
661 parry
540ish? dodge

self buff with inq armor/hp buff
51 justi.


oh one more thing, resist lesser? if thats necessary for hk/id run? i dont have water sigil, and i tanked akylios and i was fine. didn't have issue, i feel that midigation is more important to resist, since that if u go full fire or water u will loose TON of block. idk may be just me. any suggestion.

[Potter]

ok, i m still learning, so figive me with some noob question.

heres few
when u stop stacking block?
If i m sitting at 1168 block selfbuff, will that i need to start looking into stack other stats?
at where i m at 1168 block, my parry is 661, and mid 500 on dodge, cant remember exact. but what i seeing is, if i want to increase my hp, i would have to lose some block, in return i will gain parry/dodge and of cuz end. so i guess i need to understand which stats is important to stack first, and that when is stopping point if stacking those, i assume u dont stop stacking endurance.

i m sitting at 19.2k hp self buff, and i really want to reach over 19.5k hp self buff, which i have 12pt PA left for end, and i can switch out few gears.

heres other stats
1168 block
661 parry
540ish? dodge

self buff with inq armor/hp buff
51 justi.


oh one more thing, resist lesser? if thats necessary for hk/id run? i dont have water sigil, and i tanked akylios and i was fine. didn't have issue, i feel that midigation is more important to resist, since that if u go full fire or water u will loose TON of block. idk may be just me. any suggestion.

The first part of your post is answered directly in the posts above yours. The last part you answered yourself. Don't sacrifice tanking mitigation for resists. I have not seen a tank who needs a resist core yet.

[Carinae]

The first part of your post is answered directly in the posts above yours. The last part you answered yourself. Don't sacrifice tanking mitigation for resists. I have not seen a tank who needs a resist core yet.

It depends on the fight. Resist is just another form of mitigation. On Garau, for example, 99% of the damage is Water, so the only form of mitigation is Water resist. Garau is more of an exception though. Most fights are mainly physical (if you're a tank), and so physical mitigation is key.

Resists can be a valuable form of mitigation, especially if you've already above the soft-cap.

P.S> You should tank Garau with a 2H, its fun!