what if the Vigil wanted magitech to run rampant?

[Annalea]

Only because they didn't have forums lol. Lewis was actually an athesist, Tolkein got him to join the ranks of Christians but he was very upset when Lewis chose the C of E over the RC church. Then after Vatican II Tolkein made a point of saying the old Latin responses VERY loudly because he was not happy at all with the conversion to using the native language of the congregation.

That said though you can't have a faction based on religious faith without a discussion of it. /shrug.

I'm all for discussion of theology and philosophy! However, it was coming off as more a discussion of who was more right.

[BlueEyedRhapsody]

I didn't mean to imply that the Guardians are not zealots, aren't on a crusade, etc. The devs clearly pull from the real world for a lot of their influences too. I just meant to say that we could all take a step back. After all, this is fiction. Cyril may be a zealot against the Defiants, but he's pixels and a voice actor. I think it's interesting what a chord the Defiant perspective has struck with so many people on an irl basis. You don't find as many Guardians (outside of Morvick maybe XD) who are personally invested in Vigil worship. lol

And as for correlation drawing, of course that's a natural thing to do. I'm just saying that for the purpose of this topic/thread, it would be very easy to go off track and end up debating about the real world things instead of the Telara things. The Buddhist tangent being an example. I could likewise debate about the nature of European humanism and the roots of the Enlightenment for ages and we'd never get anywhere. ;)

[Galibier]

I am assuming you mean in terms of how religion relates in the game?

If so yeah there is going to be a right and wrong to some extent based on the lore deployed in the game via the quests etc.

If you mean irl well while there are people of faith who see one faith as an absolute right and another as an absolute wrong. However I think here we had more a case of people who have some education in religons (at least I have taken theology and then comparitive theology courses) who then speak about the facts of different religions and the opinions they formed based on these facts. When you look at religions from an objective position and not a faith based one you will still have strong opinions formed.

You want to see real right or wrong arguments spend time in a class of people discussing the pros and cons of not only Oliver Cromwell but the effects that his belief in evangelical Puritanism had on his actions and almost as importantly how influencial was the sale of most of his holdings in his conversion to this belief (as opposed to the C of E he was obviously first lart of as a member of the landed gentry.)

[Lutinz]

I think its worth keeping in mind that the Guardians differ from irl religions in several pretty fundimental ways. First and formost is the existance of the Vigil isnt debatable. They exist. Everyone admits they exists.

The question is more about trust in the path the gods have chosen and the limits the gods have demanded for mortals. This is of course colored by personal views and opinions. Many Guardians dont just hate Magitech because the Gods say it shouldn't be used but also because of what has been done using it. This often leads to people developing bias towards types of tech even if it isnt in the same vain.

There was a Anceint Wardstone quest in Scarwood before they took them out where you had a young elven researcher give you a item that syphoned planar energy off planar beings to strenghten wardstones. She comments that tech like it is often shunned and frowned upon even though the very act of making the device requires the Vigil's blessing.

If there is one thing that Trion has done really well in the story, it is the depth and character of the two factions. Both factions can be easily stereotyped but when looked at closely both stereotypes are poor representions of the true nature of the factions. This carries over to characters as well. Brother Jebiah is one of my favorate examples of this.

In regards to the Threads question I think that the Vigil has a bigger game plan than either faction is aware of and it seems perfectly likely to me that they want the to factions to at least be rivals. There are potentially very good reasons for that. The two obvious ones are they keep each other in check and they force each other to grow stronger and remain adaptable. After all if the Vigil really wanted peace between the two groups they could have ascended Zaraph. Its very likely he would be able to get both sides working together.

The Abbot of Thontic suggests that there is more going on than we are aware of. As he points out, even at the hieght of the first Bloodstorm invasion, when the Dragons were roaming free across Telara, the Gods didnt feel the need to create immortal saints. Ascended probably werent a whim.

[The 17th Knight]

This is a great thread, and I don't have time to read all of it, but after the first couple of pages my head was reeling with fascinating thoughts. I can't imagine why I'd never considered what the OP brings up, but it's some great food for thought.

These are all problems that are present when you begin trying to discuss something as being "omniscient" yet still directly controlling/influencing a world, the problems this brings to free will, etc., I simply hadn't carried those same thought processes over to the game and applied them to the Vigil.

Great food for thought, makes both my Defiant and Guardian characters seem completely different (and yet much more similar)