PTS PvP Normalization Test – Tuesday, 8/14 @ 4PM PDT

[Keota]

This is a good question. Who wouldn't PvP in full HK/ID gear w/crystal if they could also have the valor and vengeance of a full PvP set.

Although I have both full sets of gear, I'm not liking the sound of this. I'm in the "I worked for both" camp.

all gear is going to be normalized rank 1 gear or top not pve ID raid gear. doesnt matter the hardest part is picking what you want to q for.

[Violacea]

Literally cancelled my 1 year sub that was about to recur in hours. That is my feedback on the change. When Rift 3 Arena becomes Rift again, I'll hop out of Dm6 and enjoy the PvP I play this game for again.

Honestly it looks like mostly positive feedback, so my desires of gaming are just too barbaric and old now. I know it is an experiment but I can see intent behind it. If it does get scrapped, I think the same goal will be attempted with a different solution. These just aren't my shoes want to walk for MMO's. I treasure every ounce of personal progression I put into my MMO toons, normalized stats defy the desire to play. I will leave with one bit of food for thought though.

Normalized stats. Do you guys consider that even at end game, with end game par gear, people choose a wide variety of arrangements. Some people use a valor engine, some use a vengeance engine. Any degree of mixtures of pvp/pve essences to go in the side of DPS or protection. This would shatter my hope that one day PvP synergy crystals receive as much alluring uniqueness as the PvE ones. I really felt SL would attempt to take pvp gear to a new level and create more calling/class specific attributes. But if this is being tested now, there is clearly no plan to do this with itemization in SL. It would defy the premise of this. And MMO dev teams usually have been working on stuff for months by the time you hear it. Which means that I can nearly conclude my hope of a greater level of interesting gear choices for pvp is just in my head. Some people mix in a raid item, some people go balls out and get super risky with a 4pc raid set. That would fade with this. No I am not a raider, no I don't have a guild with people in it and I am a 100% solo player. So consider that before you think I am a disgruntled raider who loves using relics in WFs. I actually was very gung ho about creating an extra level of dedication that could earn a player a pvp quality relic item among the itemization. Again, apparently these hopes were in my head. That would defy this premise.

As a old friend in Eq2 told me when I first started playing it as my first MMO "man, MMO's really are all about having what other people don't, when it boils down". Whether it be fluff or gear. Heck, I even remember WANTING to play at a high end level of Eq2 when I inspected people and drooled over their gear. When I entered Rift I was unsure if I liked PvP or PvE. I saw the gear vendors and sort of had that feeling like "wow, this is pretty sweet gear I can earn on my own, I will get into this". Again, just my experience and maybe this is for the greater good of what the people want. If a game has gone mainstream, it just isn't a business savvy move to cater to a small portion of people with a hardcore desire, who say suck it up. But that is me and that is the player I am and that Quake made me. I can handle being 1 shotted, I can handle having to play for over a year to get on the same playing field as some people - in such a game that was very possible. I played for 7+ years and was never as good as Fatal1ty and some other players I ran into in the areans. I have no problem playing to better myself and Rift takes me 1 - 2 months at most to do that...and the power is nearly promised. I am absolutely fine with a game where there is no promise you will ever be able to compare to the top dogs. That is the game that sucked more time of my life than any game I have played. Compared to what I described though, it makes Rift in the days of non-normalized Valor look like Candyland.

It's just my fact of the matter assertion on the idea. This seems to be what the people want, if this maintains and renews more subs than lost, then I can't argue the logic that it is a good idea, no matter what my stance on it is. GL d00ds.

[bear_on_the_job]

all gear is going to be normalized rank 1 gear or top not pve ID raid gear. doesnt matter the hardest part is picking what you want to q for.

No, the issue he is talking about is the synergy crystal part. PVP synergy crystals just give stats, which will all be normalized in the end, so the crystal effectively does nothing. But PVE crystals give things like dmg % increases, cooldown reductions on certain abilities, turning cast time abilities into instant casts, etc. Those types of things can't possibly be normalized.

The only thing I think they can do right now is disable all trinkets and all synergy crystals in Conquest and Warfronts with this test. Otherwise PVE gear will have a very large advantage over PVP gear.

[Geodude074]

I LOVE THIS IDEA!

Thank you, Trion! For once, you're finally doing something right about PVP!

Keep this up and I might not even switch over to GW2. Heck, I might even renew my subscription for you guys!

The days of r50's dominating WFs packed with r10's and r20's will be OVER.

The days of elitists claiming "lulz lrn2play noob" as they 3 shot fresh level 50's with 4k HP will be OVER.

FINALLY, PVP WILL BE BASED ON PLAYER SKILL! It will not be about how many hours of your life you wasted away, grinding for the gear. It will not be about how many days you spent sitting in front of extractors, waiting for them to cap.

The only people I can see who would oppose this idea, would be the people who put in the grind and wasted dozens upon dozens of hours of their lives in order to get the gear to be overpowered against fresh 50's. Suddenly, their elite gear will be MEANINGLESS, and they will have to prove that it is THEIR SKILL that makes them achieve the top KBs in every WF, NOT THEIR GEAR!

Go Trion!

[Iri]

The **** kind of stupid idea is this? If you want to flatten the gear curve, make the gear cheaper. This is the dumbest idea I've seen from Trion in a while.

[Keota]

No, the issue he is talking about is the synergy crystal part. PVP synergy crystals just give stats, which will all be normalized in the end, so the crystal effectively does nothing. But PVE crystals give things like dmg % increases, cooldown reductions on certain abilities, turning cast time abilities into instant casts, etc. Those types of things can't possibly be normalized.

The only thing I think they can do right now is disable all trinkets and all synergy crystals in Conquest and Warfronts with this test. Otherwise PVE gear will have a very large advantage over PVP gear.

it would make sence.. whats the point in normalizing gear in pvp if people can just throw on pve gear with pve bonuses to gain the upper hand.

trinkets and crystals should be inop in wf settings forcing people to play with normalized pvp gear

[Grimt]

I'm P50 and fully geared, but I like this direction for two reasons:

1. If I wanted "progression" I'd PvE. I play PvP because competing against other players is dynamic and ever changing, and it's more challenging when the gear scales are balanced.

2. Once players no longer feel the need to grind gear, content will be king. This change, whether Trion recognizes it or not, is going to put a huge burden on them to make warfronts fun and interesting for their own sake. Conquest is going to need a major overhaul for that to happen, and additional warfronts will probably need to be added on a more regular basis.

[Stanley Pain]

ITT: We find out who the real PVPers are

[Nefelia]

ITT: We find out who the real PVPers are

Quite so, and quite amusing to see some forum regulars leaving over the matter.

So far I see no indication that gear progression is going to be taken away. Gear normalization for Warfronts and Conquest does not effect open world PvP and PvE.

And at the very least, I expect to see less spawn-camping marathons as the result of poor gear balance between teams.

As for PvE trinkets: if you are concerned about that then hop onto the PTS with your PvE goodies and give them the data they need to normalize that set of gear as well. This idea is still in the experimental stage, so now is the time to let them know about the loopholes they may be missing.

[Violacea]

ITT: We find out who the real PVPers are

Here are some real pvp'ers names. I am going to their game. You could play the game for 8 years and you won't pvp as good as these people. Dem skill based games. Tell me when you are sitting on a stage playing for $5k+ prizes in front of an audience in Black Garden, lol. Real competition, lol.

QuakeCon 2012 Tournament winners.


1st Place: Alexey "Cypher" Yanushevsky - $9,000
2nd Place: Tim "DaHanG" Fogarty - $5,000
3rd Place: Shane "Rapha" Hendrixson - $3,000
4th Place: Paul "czm" Nelson - $1000
5th/8th Place (tied): John "ZeRo4" Hill - $500
5th/8th Place (tied): Chance "chance" Lacina - $500
5th/8th Place (tied): Justin "Sparks" Sparks - $500
5th/8th Place (tied): Brian "dkt" Flander - $500


^^^ this is what Rift thinks it can obtain or something. These epic-ally skill based competitions. ZeRo4 has been playing since I was like 11 How would it feel to play a game knowing you can *never* be as good as some people? You tell me I'm cowering away. I went in a Rift game earlier and 2 points deep in WF escalation, after 30 seconds I was top of my teams damage and made our only 3 kills of the match. SUCH GOOD PLAYERS.

[Daglar]

I won't enjoy this because of how imbalanced callings are right now. High-end gear is about the only way for a healer to survive overtuned DPS and healing debuffs.

Did I forget to have Elrar mention that all healing debuffs are reduced to 10% maximum for the duration of the test?

Additionally, damage output is reduced at a base level, as is healing. There will be more complete patch notes for when it goes to live servers for the test week.

[Stanley Pain]

Here are some real pvp'ers names. I am going to their game. You could play the game for 8 years and you won't pvp as good as these people. Dem skill based games. Tell me when you are sitting on a stage playing for $5k+ prizes in front of an audience in Black Garden, lol. Real competition, lol.

QuakeCon 2012 Tournament winners.


1st Place: Alexey "Cypher" Yanushevsky - $9,000
2nd Place: Tim "DaHanG" Fogarty - $5,000
3rd Place: Shane "Rapha" Hendrixson - $3,000
4th Place: Paul "czm" Nelson - $1000
5th/8th Place (tied): John "ZeRo4" Hill - $500
5th/8th Place (tied): Chance "chance" Lacina - $500
5th/8th Place (tied): Justin "Sparks" Sparks - $500
5th/8th Place (tied): Brian "dkt" Flander - $500


^^^ this is what Rift thinks it can obtain or something. These epic-ally skill based competitions. ZeRo4 has been playing since I was like 11 How would it feel to play a game knowing you can *never* be as good as some people? You tell me I'm cowering away. I went in a Rift game earlier and 2 points deep in WF escalation, after 30 seconds I was top of my teams damage and made our only 3 kills of the match. SUCH GOOD PLAYERS.

I think you missed my point... by a fair margin too.

[Daglar]

Synergy crystals and trinkets need to be looked at, as I have raid gear that will bring a lot more to table than base line pvp crap.

Yep, if this were to be a feature we turn on in live and leave this way forever. However, its not. Its a test that we can gather metrics on and decide what our future course of action will be.

In order to get something like this out on the real servers, were not going to deal with every single aspect. I see a lot of speculation in this thread already - we plan on turning it on for a week (assuming it is fully functioning tomorrow on PTS).

Once the week is up, its off.

~Daglar

[Credo]

Yep, if this were to be a feature we turn on in live and leave this way forever. However, its not. Its a test that we can gather metrics on and decide what our future course of action will be.

In order to get something like this out on the real servers, were not going to deal with every single aspect. I see a lot of speculation in this thread already - we plan on turning it on for a week (assuming it is fully functioning tomorrow on PTS).

Once the week is up, its off.

~Daglar

Yay! Data!!!

[Anthony01]

Did I forget to have Elrar mention that all healing debuffs are reduced to 10% maximum for the duration of the test?

Additionally, damage output is reduced at a base level, as is healing. There will be more complete patch notes for when it goes to live servers for the test week.

I will definitely be there tomorrow for the test then.