Oh wait, you do have no clue what you are talking about because PvP gear isn't BiS for PvE.
If PvP gear is BiS for PvE then prove it. Back up your comments with some actual facts.
Also, what about PVE weapons, synergy crystals, trinkets, and essences all being better than their PVP equivalents?
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward,
Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both,
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I die you are forgiven...."
"If I live, I will kill YOU"
such is the rule of honour.
sorry guys but is this guy trolling
If a R50 joins your raid they will need much less gearing up for progression compared to someone who only has HK junk, this instantly makes PvPers a bigger asset to progression guilds than actual raiders.
Possible solution: replace all the AP with vengeance on PvP gear, make AP on PvE gear less effective in PvP than vengeance.
Last edited by Cammyle; 06-14-2012 at 10:20 PM.
Can't be a serious thread.
Just can't be.
Overall this is a problem with incentives and the differences in how rewards are given in pvp and pve currently. This topic has very little to do with hit/focus.
After thinking about this more I can only conclude that the only people who want +hit/focus on pvp weapons are trolls/greifers.
There simply isn't enough hit/focus on pve weapons to prevent people from wanting the rank 50 pvp weapons over previous tier raid weapons.
There is 75 hit/focus gained from runes(13+13+13+18+18). So we are looking at next tier until items start having that amount of hit/focus. For pvp weapons with hit/focus not to be incentive for raiders looking for an easy upgrade we have the formula:
current tier pvp weapon Hit/focus + 75 < current tier pve weapon hit/focus
Serious PVE player just need to take a quick look on the pts in order to see how they can gain some serious dps from a pvp weapon. The main difference in pvp and pve rewards is how gear / loot is given. In raids you have a chance at loot once a week. Whereas in pvp you have a guaranteed amount of prestige and favor to farm for your weapon. Getting items is more of a factor of mountain dew and time mashing the "que warfronts" button than it is skill or talent. These pve players who have not had the grace of the rng gods will be incentivised or "forced" to pvp and grind to rank 50 for a new weapon. This has some serious implications. First less people will want to raid previous tier content because there is little reason to do that for a chance at a drop once a week when you can simple afk your way to a guaranteed weapon upgrade.
Serious PVP players will not like this as there will be an influx of people botting and or afking in war fronts. If you have ever had the bad luck to join a team with afk members you know this is not fun. Secondly, the quality of warfronts will decline as pve players are notoriously bad at pvp. If you want "competition" or "good fights" these changes will prevent that.
There are already solutions to pvp players who feel they require hit/focus in this age of less shamicars(or so I've been told). The aformentioned runes will give you 75 hit/focus which is really all you need in pvp. Secondly, if you have enough plat you can already craft weapons with hit/focus and valor with various recipes. I suggest the pvp community look into these 2 options before attempting to make the gameplay experience miserable for their fellow players.
In conclusion a bunch of players will have less fun in rift because of these changes that seem completely unecessary. The dev team should instead refocus any efforts on balancing the reward scheme of pvp with that of pve.
First of all 75 Hit in PvP is pathetic, that won't even break through the 20% defense Warriors, Rogues, and Clerics get just from Str/Dex/Wis.
And second of all, your answer for PvPers to get extra Hit/Focus is to buy crafted gear? Really? PvPers should buy crafted gear to PvP with because their PvP weapons are crap without enough Hit on them.
What a joke.
If someone bots, or AFKs in warfronts to try and get substandard PvP weapons to raid with, then they deserve to be reported and lose everything they get. Which has happened in the past, and will happen in the future.
If PvE players can't get a decent weapon raiding, which I find hard to believe because even I managed to get HK weapons doing PuG raids, then why can't they buy crafted weapons to raid with?
If it's good enough a solution for PvP players, then it's a good enough solution for PvE players.
This whole argument is a smokescreen. PvE players don't need to to grind maximum ranks for good gear to raid with. That is a load of bollocks.
But you know what? If they do they'll be in for a rude surprise, because they won't be getting into any ID raids any time soon. A PvP player sporting a full set of top end PvP gear would be kicked from a raid group for not being able to compete with a full geared HK player. Even if R50 weapons on the PTS had their Hit/Focus returned to +50, a full set of PvP gear would still suck compared to its PvE counterparts.
You can try and spin it any way that you like, but it just isn't happening. The only person trying to make other people's game play miserable is you, and others of your ilk who spout nonsense and have no clue what they are talking about.
Last edited by Alyn; 06-15-2012 at 09:01 AM. Reason: rude comments
Whilst every other class / role got Carceran craftables available to them (yes, I know the mats are hard to come by, but they are possible to get) there is no crafted +130hit 2H. So... if a R50 weapon offers me the DPS of an Aky relic or an ID 2H, but I have to do some funky runing to maintain hit, of course I'm going to grind my way from R40 to R50 precisely because there is no RNG, i.e. if I put the time in I am 100% guarenteed of a 2H axe or sword. How much fun do you think is involved when months of RNG refuses to drop the one item from that tier that's still an upgrade?
If you want people to not be able to use PvP gear in PvE content then the opposite should also be true. If you want the +hit on the R50 weaponry removed that's fine but to balance that out the PvE weapons should have a *minus* valor stat on them, i.e. PvE weapons are detrimental to your survivability in a warfront. Likewise, if you want to stop people using PvE armour / synergy crystals in warfronts, make all PvE armour have a *minus* valor stat, to the extent that if you use enough pieces you're valorless. I'm already sick of seeing warriors in warfronts using their council scythes in warfronts due to it being massively more DPS than any equivalent PvP 2H'er. If you want this stuff kept separate, it has to work both ways. It also means going back to the 'good old days' of where you'd start warfronts in PvE gear and be a free kill for anyone in PvP gear... feel free to bring me some guardians like that.
Hit isn't an issue at all, in fact it's good that PvP weapons are getting hit to make sure PvE weapons aren't this good in PvP.
The problem which all of you seem to be missing is that R50 gear is ridiculously overpowered for PvE.
The solution to this is extremely simple, either do something like Marty suggested or just reduce the universal stats on PvP gear and replace them with more vengeance/valor.
seriously check the post of Meteorblade.
In PVP whatever you do you always get your weapon upgrade. IT IS A MATTER OF FARMING.
In PVE raid it is rng on drop, plus a matter of who your guild decides to handle the weapon to. If there are 4 dps warriors in a guild and for 6+ months there is only one Kraken Spine drop for them all 3 out of 4 warriors have wasted their time. Because for 6+ months they would have already grinded their better r50 pvp weapon (r50 pvp weapon is better than Grug's Axe and Estrode's sword by far!)
I am glad that in our guild we have 4 Kraken Spines, but there are guilds that have never seen one! You can not, I repeat CAN NOT set comparable stats on something that you can farm (pvp weapon) with something that you have to earn (pve weapon) And earning means you are there every god damn raid and be focused to kill bosses and perform well. Cause usually better gear goes to better raider first.
I am with thumbs up for improving PVP experience, but this is not the way to do it. Regarding people that run with HK/ID relics in warfronts, I can tell you that they have spent a hell lot more time acquiring this gear than any pvp running with r40 gear.
I think Kraken Spine drops a lot more now as much as 50% I think.
Same as AMOP trinket never dropped for us before well I think once in 6 months seems now to drop every week
End result from my point of view as cleric is that moving to the P50 weapons from Aky relics is a net gain of +24SP, -1 SC, -36focus. This isn't even an upgrade, just a side-grade. Why all the QQ?
Ambi - Cleric - Stack on 8.