A solution to the hit/focus issue in PVP

[Adastra]

Does anyone have screenshots of the new rogue PvP armor/weapons compared to the p7/8 set? I just want to compare the stats for scoring purposes.

[Laban of C O]

Does anyone have screenshots of the new rogue PvP armor/weapons compared to the p7/8 set? I just want to compare the stats for scoring purposes.

I can screeny it for you later after work I suppose. It's pretty simple though, exact same str/dex/AP/Crit as the P7/8 set. 5ish more endurance each piece, and 6ish more vengence. The look is currently identical to P7/8. The weapon is just a bit under the ID drops, dps wise. Stats are still sub HK.

[Adastra]

I can screeny it for you later after work I suppose. It's pretty simple though, exact same str/dex/AP/Crit as the P7/8 set. 5ish more endurance each piece, and 6ish more vengence. The look is currently identical to P7/8. The weapon is just a bit under the ID drops, dps wise. Stats are still sub HK.

If that's the case, it's almost as if they considered the p7/8 gear to be equivalent to the HK relics instead of HK epics as far as budgeting for the new p9/10 stuff. The increase in vengeance on the new gear would need to be doubled (realistically, 2.25x-2.5x), possibly a bit more to mirror the gains from HK epic -> ID epics as far as pure dps goes.

I do get why they're only increasing vengeance and endurance only though, but it seems kinda heavy handed to limit the use of gear outside of PvP, oh well.

[Laban of C O]

If that's the case, it's almost as if they considered the p7/8 gear to be equivalent to the HK relics instead of HK epics as far as budgeting for the new p9/10 stuff. The increase in vengeance on the new gear would need to be doubled (realistically, 2.25x-2.5x), possibly a bit more to mirror the gains from HK epic -> ID epics as far as pure dps goes.

I do get why they're only increasing vengeance and endurance only though, but it seems kinda heavy handed to limit the use of gear outside of PvP, oh well.

I have 0 intention of actually using the pvp weapons. I'll be either running ID drop weapons, or the 1.8 crafted axes when I need valor (made with valor augment). More valor than the pvp weapons, 65 hit, and higher base dps. Along with far superior stats. :P

Last I heard vengence wasn't increased by class ap boosting abilities either, so I'll probably go back to running a 4 piece ID set with hk crystal and pvp gear to fill out the last slots for a little bit of valor. I'll grind out the new couple of pieces I need to fill in the rings, and neck. But yeah, I'll be using more pve gear heh.

[nemecis]

I'm sorry, but the PVP trinket is not BIS for rogue/warrior dps. Golem Inductor is WAY better. Also, it is 1 item out of the entire wardrobe where the pvp trinket is usual for pve. For pvping, ROTP molten brands are wonderful for rogues, and FAR superior to the pvp weapons. You get hit, you get a ton more damage, and you give up a paultry amount of valor for it. Hell, I'll get bored and toss on a mix of pvp and HK gear, just enough to get the 4 piece bonus and run HK crystals with my nb/rs at times. Feels like running a warrior. Speaking of warriors... 2 warriors from my guild pvp wearing almost no pvp gear, they just run with their ID raiding gear. They also get near top KB in the warfronts running this. :P Hell, I DID have top kb the other day with 0 pvp gear on with my ranger in pvp. I decided to **** around with my raiding build 51 ranger... for giggles. 28 or something kb and 0 deaths. **** just died before it got close. That is part of the problem with the disparity between raiding gear and pvp gear. The stats > for the valor at a certain point. Especially if you're getting just enough valor off runes and other such.

L2Read ... I said Tank trinket, not DPS.

Also, I run P40 gear, HK weapons and top KBs + Damage done on a regular basis. It's much easier to PvP with PvE gear in the 1-25 bracket then the 25-40. That's where the loss of valor is most noticable (especially for Warriors). Not to mention I'd lose about 4k HP by swapping to PvE gear. Just because some do it doesn't make it BIS. BIS in PvP is not as clearly defined as PvE, which is why so many presume PvE is superior to PvP gear for PvP. Outside of the native +hit actually providing a tangible advantage over PvP items, much of this QQ is vaslty over stated.

[Division]

IIRC Daglar said they were aware of it, and that's the last I heard.
That's something, but I'd think with new PvP gear coming out this'd be a good opportunity to fix it.

I think they said they were aware of it last July or August too. Sadly, nothing has come of it.

[Zaros]

The actual relevant argument would be toughness on pvp gear in exchange for valor on pve gear. Hit/focus are required for both pve and pvp, whereas valor and vengeance are not. Pvp'ers are asking for a REQUIRED stat that is only available via pve.

This. A thousand times, this.

[Zaros]

Well, +hit is now on the PVP weapons on the PTS.
Haters gonna hate.

[HannonHellbringer]

I feel a bit better by the pts changes on the weapons, their stats are not high enough to make them BiS for raiding since they are end/vengeance heavy but it will put them on par for pvp vs relics maybe even bring the relics down a bit.

[thechair]

Well, +hit is now on the PVP weapons on the PTS.
Haters gonna hate.

How much hit did they add?

[Killforbeer]

[QUOTE=thechair;3808756]How much hit did they add?[/QUOTE

Hits are only found on the weapons - btw

r40 = 38 hits
r50 = 50 hits

[Danitsia]

I don't understand why you would want to take resistances to things out of PvP. It was something that I rather enjoyed and made the game much more unpredictable in its encounters. Again I do not play a rogue or a warrior or a melee cleric, so bare with me as I try to understand. What is the average miss on CD abilities or base abilities for the melees out there? If it is significant, I would agree with adding in +hit/+focus... but if we're talking less than 6%, I would argue against the addition of +hit/+focus and here's why.

In DAOC, we would have toe-to-toe fights (I did play a melee class there --- savage, reaver, and thane --- although my main was a healer) and yeah we missed sometimes, randomly, even on cooldown abilities, but that made the game a hell of a lot of fun. The unpredictability of it all was part of the fun in PvP. I wouldn't have wanted that to be removed at all.

[Flimble]

I don't understand why you would want to take resistances to things out of PvP. It was something that I rather enjoyed and made the game much more unpredictable in its encounters. Again I do not play a rogue or a warrior or a melee cleric, so bare with me as I try to understand. What is the average miss on CD abilities or base abilities for the melees out there? If it is significant, I would agree with adding in +hit/+focus... but if we're talking less than 6%, I would argue against the addition of +hit/+focus and here's why.

A geared out / high PA rogue can have about 20% passive dodge / parry, I think there is a base 5% miss change on top of that (could be wrong).

Also it is not as simple as having hit or not, because PvE weapons have 100 hit on them and are a huge advantage in PvP, which is pretty dumb design.

[Danitsia]

A geared out / high PA rogue can have about 20% passive dodge / parry, I think there is a base 5% miss change on top of that (could be wrong).

Also it is not as simple as having hit or not, because PvE weapons have 100 hit on them and are a huge advantage in PvP, which is pretty dumb design.

So the miss rate is 5%.... 5 misses for every 100 swings? That seems awfully LOW. If its not about having hit... (and I am DUMB, so please bare with me) why are we asking for hit to be added to PvP for a 5% miss rate?

And Rogues use PvP weapons in PvE --- its best in slot for some of them even without the +hit on them, no? So they have access to a BIS item through their PvP. So why shouldn't you be able to use a PvE weapon for PvP? What exactly is the unbalance there?

[Antigonos]

A geared out / high PA rogue can have about 20% passive dodge / parry, I think there is a base 5% miss change on top of that (could be wrong).

Also it is not as simple as having hit or not, because PvE weapons have 100 hit on them and are a huge advantage in PvP, which is pretty dumb design.

this. The other option would have been to hit/fokus not count in pvp, I would have preferred that. Less whining of paranoid raiders and overall dmg reduction cause of higher dodge/parry/block in pvp.